Tiger Airways A320 Pilot Recruitment
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I think that means 14000 to 16000 Singapore $$.
I am a 320 driver that was invited to Tiger, and as soon as I saw the employment details I burned the email in the digital trash!!!
If it is true they can't find anyone, they will surely adjust. You can't fly a fleet of 320's with freshly trained piston drivers! No offense. You gotta have some experience when it comes to Airbus or your gonna get in trouble.
I am a 320 driver that was invited to Tiger, and as soon as I saw the employment details I burned the email in the digital trash!!!
If it is true they can't find anyone, they will surely adjust. You can't fly a fleet of 320's with freshly trained piston drivers! No offense. You gotta have some experience when it comes to Airbus or your gonna get in trouble.
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You lot out there who keep asking about Tiger Airways and how to contact them etc etc . It takes about 1 minute using a search engine to find this out.
Their website is www.tigerairways.com click on careers and all the details exactly as Kaptin M described are there for all to see.
If you incapable of finding this out how on earth do you expect to fly an Airbus 320
Their website is www.tigerairways.com click on careers and all the details exactly as Kaptin M described are there for all to see.
If you incapable of finding this out how on earth do you expect to fly an Airbus 320
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Below Clouds,
I don't think Kaptin M meant that 14000 Singaporean dollars equated to 14 American dollars. At today's exchange rate, S$14000 is equivalent to US$8200. That salary probably sounds pretty good to you in Russia.
Cheers.
Rockhound
I don't think Kaptin M meant that 14000 Singaporean dollars equated to 14 American dollars. At today's exchange rate, S$14000 is equivalent to US$8200. That salary probably sounds pretty good to you in Russia.
Cheers.
Rockhound
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$8200 per month ? ...So $98400 per yr ? If this is the case, this is not bad at all and almost more than I am getting as a wide body captain further north in asia. How can people complain about this kind of pay in this day and age?...or have I got something wrong...
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Topman
Re Salary quoted of S $14000 per month.
First of all I do not believe you will get anything like that as they do not show how they arrive at that figure.
Silk Air Basic for Captains is S$7000 per month plus say 800 hrs pa at s$56 per hour makes a monthly total of around S$11000 per month.
I cannot believe that Tiger are paying more than Silk Air
Also do not forget about tax say S$16600 pa plus accommodation say S$2000 per month depending on family requirements and if you have children of school age then you will certainly not be able to afford the International schools.
SQ are quoting a Salary of S$175000 pa for B777 Captains which is only S$14500 per month although they do have expat extras which do not apply to Tiger.
Just remember Tigers have a nasty bite !!
Re Salary quoted of S $14000 per month.
First of all I do not believe you will get anything like that as they do not show how they arrive at that figure.
Silk Air Basic for Captains is S$7000 per month plus say 800 hrs pa at s$56 per hour makes a monthly total of around S$11000 per month.
I cannot believe that Tiger are paying more than Silk Air
Also do not forget about tax say S$16600 pa plus accommodation say S$2000 per month depending on family requirements and if you have children of school age then you will certainly not be able to afford the International schools.
SQ are quoting a Salary of S$175000 pa for B777 Captains which is only S$14500 per month although they do have expat extras which do not apply to Tiger.
Just remember Tigers have a nasty bite !!
Was in Singapore a few days ago and my buddy there advised that SIA don't pay their 777 and 345 captains SG$14000 per month. Around SG$10000 is more like their basic so he cannot see how Tiger are arriving at their figures.
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Hmmm , interesting...and SG$14K/mo is at the bottom of Tiger's announced pay scale for captains. Some of you pilots consider Tiger's offer derisory and reject it out-of-hand. Others think it looks pretty good. Still others simply don't believe it. Guess we'll have to wait for someone to accept Tiger's shilling and see what he or she actually gets.
Rockhound
Rockhound
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I saw Tigers first A320 in Changi yesterday with a striped yellow and black tail.
They claim they will have 12 A/C by 2006 and that their business plan will make them dominant in the region and be profitable in their first year!!
I hear the Pilots are seconded from Silk Air. If Tiger are paying $14000/$16000 per month as they claim I guess every Pilot in Silk Air will be applying as it is far better deal than they are getting.
They claim they will have 12 A/C by 2006 and that their business plan will make them dominant in the region and be profitable in their first year!!
I hear the Pilots are seconded from Silk Air. If Tiger are paying $14000/$16000 per month as they claim I guess every Pilot in Silk Air will be applying as it is far better deal than they are getting.
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The pilots are seconded from SIA not Silkair. They are 777 captains who were previously Silkair A320 captains. Silkair pilots are already hitting the yearly max hours, so Silkair are definitely not in a position to loan pilots to anybody. The Tiger package actually falls well short of the current Silkair deal. I don't know how they come up with the $14-16000 figure, but when no breakdown is given, you would have to be suspicious. The figure I was given for the captain's base pay by one of the seconded pilots is so low that I can't believe it is correct.
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Here is an interesting snippet from the Straight(jacket) Times. Use usual "between the lines" rules for what is being spun here...
JULY 23, 2004
Airlines scramble for pilots and planes
Shortage of both as more budget carriers enter the market; some companies have even resorted to poaching staff
By Karamjit Kaur
BUDGET airlines around the region, rushing to take to the skies this year, could run into some turbulence in their search for aircraft and pilots.
Both are in short supply.
More than 10 low-cost carriers have already taken off or will do so in Asia this year and the aircraft of choice for many has been the Airbus 320.
They are hard to come by, said the region's leading aircraft leasing company, Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise (Sale).
As a result, as one airline executive put it, 'budget carriers are going all around the world hunting for planes and when we find them, we worry that our competitors will be on to the same source too'.
The news is not any better when it comes to pilots.
The general rule is eight pilots per aircraft and where the airline's advertisements have failed to show results, carriers have resorted to poaching. Experienced crew from main line and rival budget carriers said they had even been wined and dined in discreet head-hunting sessions.
It is a sign of the times, said the managing director of the Sydney-based Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, Mr Peter Harbison.
'It is always an issue when we get bursts of very rapid growth, for supply to match demand and this applies to not just aircraft and pilots but also other resources like ground handling services.'
For planes, the problem could last a while, said a spokesman for Sale.
'In our core Airbus 320 market, we have reached the point where, industry-wide, there are no more new aircraft available this year and fewer than 15 due to come off lease from all lessors combined.'
He added: 'We will have only two new aircraft available for lease next year.'
The A320 family (A318, A319, A320 and A321) is the most popular Airbus model in the Asia Pacific, with 21 delivered in the first six months of this year, most of it going to airlines in China.
Both Valuair and Singapore Airlines-backed Tiger Airways, which starts flying next quarter, have opted for the single-aisle A320, which seats up to 180 passengers.
Valuair hopes to add two aircraft every year to its fleet while Tiger's plan is to have up to 12 planes by 2006.
Sources say Qantas' new start-up here, which also starts operating by year-end, has also picked the A320.
Other airlines that fly the same aircraft include SilkAir and India's Air Deccan.
Leasing a new single-aisle Airbus costs about $489,000 a month.
But with new planes in short supply, carriers might have to settle for older aircraft coming off lease, said Sale's spokesman. 'The supply and demand equation today has changed very significantly compared to a year ago.'
Tiger, however, contends that it has no problems getting its share, possibly because of its pedigree.
Chief executive Patrick Gan said: 'Who would you want to lease your aircraft to? The credentials of the lessee and who its shareholders are, are very important and they do not come any better than this (Tiger). I am getting calls from leasing companies.'
But as for finding pilots, he said there are fewer of them around relative to the number of new airlines coming up.
He made it clear, however, that Tiger did not poach.
According to its website, captains in Tiger are paid a flat salary of between $14,000 and $16,000.
Mr Gan would not say how many pilots the airline had hired so far but confirmed that 'a few' had been seconded from SIA temporarily.
Mr Jimmy Lau, executive director of Valuair, which has 16 pilots, said: 'We have enough who come to us willingly. We do not need to go around pinching from other airlines.'
One target for airlines looking to hire A320 pilots would be SilkAir.
It has 95 pilots and will hire more as it plans to increase its fleet from 10 planes now to 16 by 2008.
Even with the recently sealed deal that gives SilkAir pilots a higher salary and more rest days, some of them have left for budget carriers.
One who made the switch after eight years in SilkAir said: 'It is truly a different world, a more relaxed one.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEMAND OUTSTRIPPING SUPPLY...
'It is always an issue when we get bursts of very rapid growth, for supply to match demand and this applies to not just aircraft and pilots but also other resources like ground handling services.'
- Mr Peter Harbison, managing director of the Sydney-based Centre forAsia Pacific Aviation
...BUT SUPPLIERS STILL COME CALLING
'Who would you want to lease your aircraft to? The credentials of the lessee and who its shareholders are, are very important and they do not come any better than this (Tiger). I am getting calls from leasing companies.'
- Mr Patrick Gan, chief executive of Tiger Airways
Straights Times article 23 Jul 40 re Tiger / Pilots / Planes
Interesting when you combine local knowledge on their crewing problems..
DG
JULY 23, 2004
Airlines scramble for pilots and planes
Shortage of both as more budget carriers enter the market; some companies have even resorted to poaching staff
By Karamjit Kaur
BUDGET airlines around the region, rushing to take to the skies this year, could run into some turbulence in their search for aircraft and pilots.
Both are in short supply.
More than 10 low-cost carriers have already taken off or will do so in Asia this year and the aircraft of choice for many has been the Airbus 320.
They are hard to come by, said the region's leading aircraft leasing company, Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise (Sale).
As a result, as one airline executive put it, 'budget carriers are going all around the world hunting for planes and when we find them, we worry that our competitors will be on to the same source too'.
The news is not any better when it comes to pilots.
The general rule is eight pilots per aircraft and where the airline's advertisements have failed to show results, carriers have resorted to poaching. Experienced crew from main line and rival budget carriers said they had even been wined and dined in discreet head-hunting sessions.
It is a sign of the times, said the managing director of the Sydney-based Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, Mr Peter Harbison.
'It is always an issue when we get bursts of very rapid growth, for supply to match demand and this applies to not just aircraft and pilots but also other resources like ground handling services.'
For planes, the problem could last a while, said a spokesman for Sale.
'In our core Airbus 320 market, we have reached the point where, industry-wide, there are no more new aircraft available this year and fewer than 15 due to come off lease from all lessors combined.'
He added: 'We will have only two new aircraft available for lease next year.'
The A320 family (A318, A319, A320 and A321) is the most popular Airbus model in the Asia Pacific, with 21 delivered in the first six months of this year, most of it going to airlines in China.
Both Valuair and Singapore Airlines-backed Tiger Airways, which starts flying next quarter, have opted for the single-aisle A320, which seats up to 180 passengers.
Valuair hopes to add two aircraft every year to its fleet while Tiger's plan is to have up to 12 planes by 2006.
Sources say Qantas' new start-up here, which also starts operating by year-end, has also picked the A320.
Other airlines that fly the same aircraft include SilkAir and India's Air Deccan.
Leasing a new single-aisle Airbus costs about $489,000 a month.
But with new planes in short supply, carriers might have to settle for older aircraft coming off lease, said Sale's spokesman. 'The supply and demand equation today has changed very significantly compared to a year ago.'
Tiger, however, contends that it has no problems getting its share, possibly because of its pedigree.
Chief executive Patrick Gan said: 'Who would you want to lease your aircraft to? The credentials of the lessee and who its shareholders are, are very important and they do not come any better than this (Tiger). I am getting calls from leasing companies.'
But as for finding pilots, he said there are fewer of them around relative to the number of new airlines coming up.
He made it clear, however, that Tiger did not poach.
According to its website, captains in Tiger are paid a flat salary of between $14,000 and $16,000.
Mr Gan would not say how many pilots the airline had hired so far but confirmed that 'a few' had been seconded from SIA temporarily.
Mr Jimmy Lau, executive director of Valuair, which has 16 pilots, said: 'We have enough who come to us willingly. We do not need to go around pinching from other airlines.'
One target for airlines looking to hire A320 pilots would be SilkAir.
It has 95 pilots and will hire more as it plans to increase its fleet from 10 planes now to 16 by 2008.
Even with the recently sealed deal that gives SilkAir pilots a higher salary and more rest days, some of them have left for budget carriers.
One who made the switch after eight years in SilkAir said: 'It is truly a different world, a more relaxed one.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEMAND OUTSTRIPPING SUPPLY...
'It is always an issue when we get bursts of very rapid growth, for supply to match demand and this applies to not just aircraft and pilots but also other resources like ground handling services.'
- Mr Peter Harbison, managing director of the Sydney-based Centre forAsia Pacific Aviation
...BUT SUPPLIERS STILL COME CALLING
'Who would you want to lease your aircraft to? The credentials of the lessee and who its shareholders are, are very important and they do not come any better than this (Tiger). I am getting calls from leasing companies.'
- Mr Patrick Gan, chief executive of Tiger Airways
Straights Times article 23 Jul 40 re Tiger / Pilots / Planes
Interesting when you combine local knowledge on their crewing problems..
DG
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From the Tiger web site:
“With such a simple contract, we intend to talk to you and your colleagues directly about all your welfare issues. Of course, you remain free to join any professional body of your choice.”
What this euphemistic blurb actually means is that as there will not be any Company recognition of collective representation for the “Tiger” pilot force, the individuals will be at the mercy of any unilaterally imposed change (reduction, that is!) in the remuneration package.
If any of you aspirant ingénues out there imagine that after signing a “contract” with the start-up, this could not happen to you in the time it takes for a tiger to fart, please take a look through the various SIA threads posted so far and in particular note that the former SIA Singapore Provident Fund (a cornerstone of the ex-pat “contract”) has recently disappeared into thin air with the cursory wording, in true Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake" style, of the SIA Senior VP Human Resources, “I believe you should also be aware of the threats posed by the budget and other carriers competing on the Company’s routes and the first ever loss of S$312 million in the quarter April to June 2003 suffered by the Company” as both a justification for this peremptory and unilateral move and an epitaph for the Fund.
As it happens, Alpa-S is still pursuing the matter. How would “Tiger” pilots be able to handle a similar situation whilst being held to the letter of their part of the “contract” and obliged to serve out their bonded time at the Company’s leisure?
“With such a simple contract, we intend to talk to you and your colleagues directly about all your welfare issues. Of course, you remain free to join any professional body of your choice.”
What this euphemistic blurb actually means is that as there will not be any Company recognition of collective representation for the “Tiger” pilot force, the individuals will be at the mercy of any unilaterally imposed change (reduction, that is!) in the remuneration package.
If any of you aspirant ingénues out there imagine that after signing a “contract” with the start-up, this could not happen to you in the time it takes for a tiger to fart, please take a look through the various SIA threads posted so far and in particular note that the former SIA Singapore Provident Fund (a cornerstone of the ex-pat “contract”) has recently disappeared into thin air with the cursory wording, in true Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake" style, of the SIA Senior VP Human Resources, “I believe you should also be aware of the threats posed by the budget and other carriers competing on the Company’s routes and the first ever loss of S$312 million in the quarter April to June 2003 suffered by the Company” as both a justification for this peremptory and unilateral move and an epitaph for the Fund.
As it happens, Alpa-S is still pursuing the matter. How would “Tiger” pilots be able to handle a similar situation whilst being held to the letter of their part of the “contract” and obliged to serve out their bonded time at the Company’s leisure?
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Thinking about what is happening in Asia at the moment brings to mind snatches of long ago heard songs with lines like :
.... follow the drinking gourd ...
.... soul to the company store .....
.... let my people go ....
et cetera
DG
.... follow the drinking gourd ...
.... soul to the company store .....
.... let my people go ....
et cetera
DG
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Funny enough, when you try to apply at Tiger Airways, it does not work. OK, I have minimal experience on A320 only, but T&C do not call for any. If you fill out a big html-form - for every date entry you have to click on the calendar cookie which takes you 10 seconds each!! - it says: "you do not fit our requirements". Application terminated, all data lost.
No wonder nobody applies...
No wonder nobody applies...
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My friend said exaclty the same thing,but no problems when accesing from sin.
Actually I still don't know how the LCC model is going to work.
CX is offering a $300 return ticket to Hong Kong-So ther big boys are in the game too?
Their 744 are sooo full I have to use crew seat for the last 4 flight back home!!
Actually I still don't know how the LCC model is going to work.
CX is offering a $300 return ticket to Hong Kong-So ther big boys are in the game too?
Their 744 are sooo full I have to use crew seat for the last 4 flight back home!!
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mooney59
Yep. The deal is that Cathay is using the capacity control function of its computer reservation system (CRS) to effect yield management thus giving a competitive “run for the money” to all comers but still allowing it to flog high price fares on the same airplane. This function allows a variable number of seats to be offered on a particular flight at a given (low) price, thus allowing a match or undercut of an LCC’s competing fare on the sector. Result over time is to run the LCC off the route. Harsh but in line with the present day ethos of “market forces”.
Presumably SIA is not doing the same (it is perfectly capable of doing so) following government intervention to safeguard Valuair on SIN-HKG and which airline, presumably, everyone can now see as being part of the overall Singapore Inc. plan (otherwise it wouldn’t have received an operating license from LKY!).
Yep. The deal is that Cathay is using the capacity control function of its computer reservation system (CRS) to effect yield management thus giving a competitive “run for the money” to all comers but still allowing it to flog high price fares on the same airplane. This function allows a variable number of seats to be offered on a particular flight at a given (low) price, thus allowing a match or undercut of an LCC’s competing fare on the sector. Result over time is to run the LCC off the route. Harsh but in line with the present day ethos of “market forces”.
Presumably SIA is not doing the same (it is perfectly capable of doing so) following government intervention to safeguard Valuair on SIN-HKG and which airline, presumably, everyone can now see as being part of the overall Singapore Inc. plan (otherwise it wouldn’t have received an operating license from LKY!).
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Yes, Cathay want to show the LCC and any putative backers that just importing the latest business model from abroad isn't as easy as it looks
Amusingly, a couple of weeks ago, Valuair put up their fares, signalling to Cathay they wanted an end to the bloodbath. Cathay has continued with the low fares, and came out with flight & hotel for 389SGD.
A320 vs B777-300 (with 25 tonnes of cargo on board) means it is easy for CX/SQ/TG to sell off 150 seats at below LCC fare, and still make money
Amusingly, a couple of weeks ago, Valuair put up their fares, signalling to Cathay they wanted an end to the bloodbath. Cathay has continued with the low fares, and came out with flight & hotel for 389SGD.
A320 vs B777-300 (with 25 tonnes of cargo on board) means it is easy for CX/SQ/TG to sell off 150 seats at below LCC fare, and still make money