Sia To Cal ????
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Sia To Cal ????
if a local singaporean capts wanted to leave SIA to join CAL , are there any mutual understandings/no poaching agreements from CAL not to take pilots from SIA?
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No. CAL will interview SAL Captains. One was doing his interview here recently.
My advise to any SAL CPT is to put and application in and make a call. CAL is hiring and all areas are constantly improving. Also CAL are never quick to fire pilots or lay them off.
My advise to any SAL CPT is to put and application in and make a call. CAL is hiring and all areas are constantly improving. Also CAL are never quick to fire pilots or lay them off.
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only one applicant from local SIA capt's?????
blimey , these guys really are suckers for punishment
or
really not very adventurous.
surely not frightened to work all of 3 hrs flight time from home are you chaps.
with CAL you get 10 consecutve days off a month + annual leave + time to get home between some trips too + only 70hrs a month instead of 80+.
give it a shot . its a good job with good atmosphere.
start the ball rolling
blimey , these guys really are suckers for punishment
or
really not very adventurous.
surely not frightened to work all of 3 hrs flight time from home are you chaps.
with CAL you get 10 consecutve days off a month + annual leave + time to get home between some trips too + only 70hrs a month instead of 80+.
give it a shot . its a good job with good atmosphere.
start the ball rolling
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Mk 1 Eyeball My guess is that they will all stay put and take what ever is thrown at them as usual.
The SIA pilot being interviewed by CAL is probably one of those expats who has been given his marching orders.
The day that a Local Captain leaves to go anywhere else to fly then I will eat my hat!!
The SIA pilot being interviewed by CAL is probably one of those expats who has been given his marching orders.
The day that a Local Captain leaves to go anywhere else to fly then I will eat my hat!!
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The vast majority of local SIA pilots have a very long National Service reserve commitment and can, (and often are), called out at a moments notice. These pilots have to get permission to leave Singapore and as soon as they say why they want to go they are told they will be called up the very day after they have left!!!
Failure to show counts as desertion! The punishments are fierce.
It has nothing to do with courage on their part, the Singapore government has them completely stitched up. The only ones who can move are the Malaysian nationals.
By the time a Singaporean has completed is national Service reserve commitment they are likely to be too old for CAL or senior enough in SIA to make a move uneconomical.
Failure to show counts as desertion! The punishments are fierce.
It has nothing to do with courage on their part, the Singapore government has them completely stitched up. The only ones who can move are the Malaysian nationals.
By the time a Singaporean has completed is national Service reserve commitment they are likely to be too old for CAL or senior enough in SIA to make a move uneconomical.
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Hi BlueEagle,
I'm not sure what you say is correct. My understanding is that if you can prove that you will be under full employ (i.e. Letter of employment) to work overseas by a firm, your NS liability will usually be put on hold. Untill such time you either come back, or you exceed the NS age limit.
I hazard to guess that the reason why most SIA local pilots choose to stay on in Singapore is because of family commitments and also because of property liability. As you know houses in SG are rediculously expensive and most Singaporeans use part of their compulsory superannuation (CPF) fund to offset their housing loan. If you work overseas = no superannuation = pay out of your own pocket. The loans can take up to 30 years to fulfil.
Also, unlike expat pilots who are used to roaming the world in seach of better prospects, the SG local pilot isn't like that.. culture I guess. It's out of their nature to pick up the whole family, pack up and go to somewhere else where the pay might be better, but the move will disrupt their child's studies etc etc.
So they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
But hey it's just my guess.
Ghos
I'm not sure what you say is correct. My understanding is that if you can prove that you will be under full employ (i.e. Letter of employment) to work overseas by a firm, your NS liability will usually be put on hold. Untill such time you either come back, or you exceed the NS age limit.
I hazard to guess that the reason why most SIA local pilots choose to stay on in Singapore is because of family commitments and also because of property liability. As you know houses in SG are rediculously expensive and most Singaporeans use part of their compulsory superannuation (CPF) fund to offset their housing loan. If you work overseas = no superannuation = pay out of your own pocket. The loans can take up to 30 years to fulfil.
Also, unlike expat pilots who are used to roaming the world in seach of better prospects, the SG local pilot isn't like that.. culture I guess. It's out of their nature to pick up the whole family, pack up and go to somewhere else where the pay might be better, but the move will disrupt their child's studies etc etc.
So they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
But hey it's just my guess.
Ghos
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if based in tpe, the singaporean would not need to uproot from singapore and disrupt his family life,schooling etc etc.
its only 3 hrs away !
all things considered the quality of life counts for a great deal more than a % cpf contribution from g.c.tong+co.(not that much anyway).
SIA capt get 8 days (not consecutive) off per mnth and work 900hrs per yr.
the 8 days can be 1-2 days ata time which after long trips/zones aint great.
10 days per mnth is a holiday every mnth + there is still annual leave on top of that too.
even after taxation from tpe , nett in usd from CAL ($10k+) is much more than nett from sia even for quite senior capt's in SIA.($1usd=1.78sgd)
better still you dont have that doom and gloom+ overhanging pressure/stress of a cheesed-off flight deck every flt.
they dont know a good opportunity when they see it.
are they all still 'flat earth society' members?
dont venture too far folks youll fall off the edge.
its only 3 hrs away !
all things considered the quality of life counts for a great deal more than a % cpf contribution from g.c.tong+co.(not that much anyway).
SIA capt get 8 days (not consecutive) off per mnth and work 900hrs per yr.
the 8 days can be 1-2 days ata time which after long trips/zones aint great.
10 days per mnth is a holiday every mnth + there is still annual leave on top of that too.
even after taxation from tpe , nett in usd from CAL ($10k+) is much more than nett from sia even for quite senior capt's in SIA.($1usd=1.78sgd)
better still you dont have that doom and gloom+ overhanging pressure/stress of a cheesed-off flight deck every flt.
they dont know a good opportunity when they see it.
are they all still 'flat earth society' members?
dont venture too far folks youll fall off the edge.
Last edited by mk1eyeball; 23rd Aug 2003 at 22:51.
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BlueEagle is correct...and it has been thus for the local SQ guys for a very long time.
Recall one First Officer who refused to fly (fatigued)...was sacked from the company, then found himself marching on the parade ground carrying a rifle three days later.
He was not a happy camper.
Recall one First Officer who refused to fly (fatigued)...was sacked from the company, then found himself marching on the parade ground carrying a rifle three days later.
He was not a happy camper.
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Millerscourt,
I hope you have many hats....because you will have to eat them very soon.
A senior Capt (25yrs+) in SQ is usually one who has many assets..properties and company shares. His typical annual salary will surpass that of CAL. Why he does not want to leave is because of the many formative years spent in this once humble airline. Of late, the arm chair generals instigated some wage cut - in line with the national wage council wage reform. The pilots' union got sucked into accepting the wage cut + no pay leave...out of fear, ignorance and lack of effective leadership.
The wage cut + no pay leave amounts to a 25% pay cut. This is substantial. Unless one has training allowances and at top of his pay scale, CAL salary package begins to look attractive.....considering the lifestyle component. In addition, the latest onslaught on wages, morale, etc. has sucked out the soul of the airline. The sense of belonging is at its ebb. The government is talking about reducing the employer's contribution to the provident fund......akin to further wage cut for local pilots.
Layoff of local and foreign pilots are unnecessary, but only to make a point in the pilots' dispute. The much anticapated cap in future pay scale and reduced benefits made many local Captains look towards other airlines such as CAL.
More than one have finished their interviews and checks. Year end bonuses is the shift factor in determining the timing of resignation.
I wish to put things in the proper perspective....not the picture depicted by some....SQ Captains being timid and wimpy.
Certainly, the talent pool of experienced guys will be sought after by airlines in the region such as CAL. By the way, the CP and DCP of Air Hong Kong is ex- SQ. Another is helping Value Air to get airborne. Many are eyeing the aviation scene in Mainland China...an ideal ground for bi-lingual SQ locals....
wingtips
I hope you have many hats....because you will have to eat them very soon.
A senior Capt (25yrs+) in SQ is usually one who has many assets..properties and company shares. His typical annual salary will surpass that of CAL. Why he does not want to leave is because of the many formative years spent in this once humble airline. Of late, the arm chair generals instigated some wage cut - in line with the national wage council wage reform. The pilots' union got sucked into accepting the wage cut + no pay leave...out of fear, ignorance and lack of effective leadership.
The wage cut + no pay leave amounts to a 25% pay cut. This is substantial. Unless one has training allowances and at top of his pay scale, CAL salary package begins to look attractive.....considering the lifestyle component. In addition, the latest onslaught on wages, morale, etc. has sucked out the soul of the airline. The sense of belonging is at its ebb. The government is talking about reducing the employer's contribution to the provident fund......akin to further wage cut for local pilots.
Layoff of local and foreign pilots are unnecessary, but only to make a point in the pilots' dispute. The much anticapated cap in future pay scale and reduced benefits made many local Captains look towards other airlines such as CAL.
More than one have finished their interviews and checks. Year end bonuses is the shift factor in determining the timing of resignation.
I wish to put things in the proper perspective....not the picture depicted by some....SQ Captains being timid and wimpy.
Certainly, the talent pool of experienced guys will be sought after by airlines in the region such as CAL. By the way, the CP and DCP of Air Hong Kong is ex- SQ. Another is helping Value Air to get airborne. Many are eyeing the aviation scene in Mainland China...an ideal ground for bi-lingual SQ locals....
wingtips
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WT44 I am preparing my hat for eating but doubt whether in the end I will have to.
If any were going to leave then waiting until Dec7th for the final tranche of Bonus would not make the difference between staying and going!!
When you go for these jobs you have to take them when offered or not at all, certainly that is the SIA Chinese way which I doubt varies in other Chinese Cultures,one does not usually have the luxury of choosing a starting date to suit your own personal convenience.
Also the very 25yr+ SIA Captains you refer to, as they are well set up financially as you suggest can well afford to sit back and stay at SIA, also I suspect that they don't want to have to lose face and join as new boys in a new foreign airline.
Still time will tell. I have flown with many F/O's who talk about going to Emirates but have yet to see any go even as far as the interview stage.
If any were going to leave then waiting until Dec7th for the final tranche of Bonus would not make the difference between staying and going!!
When you go for these jobs you have to take them when offered or not at all, certainly that is the SIA Chinese way which I doubt varies in other Chinese Cultures,one does not usually have the luxury of choosing a starting date to suit your own personal convenience.
Also the very 25yr+ SIA Captains you refer to, as they are well set up financially as you suggest can well afford to sit back and stay at SIA, also I suspect that they don't want to have to lose face and join as new boys in a new foreign airline.
Still time will tell. I have flown with many F/O's who talk about going to Emirates but have yet to see any go even as far as the interview stage.
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The avarage senior SIA local captain, who played his cards right during his carreer, has at least two to three freehold propperties in Singapore. ( 3 X a few million=enough millions to sit back and relax!!!!!!!) He will be in no hurry to go and start somewhere on the bottem where nobody will give him his "workable" schedule, as he has been used to for the last 25 years.
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John Barnes You are of course quite correct in what you say. Why go to a new oufit where you have to be watcherd over like a hawk when you can stay in SIA and have the same old mates checking you out in the Sim and on the Line.
These old timers can bid for A340-500 and just do two LA's a month and then when the A380 arrives spend the first few years going to London and Sydney. Nice cushy lifestyle. Who wants to live in Taipei anyway?? I certainly would not want to unless the money was exceptional. Is it???????????
These old timers can bid for A340-500 and just do two LA's a month and then when the A380 arrives spend the first few years going to London and Sydney. Nice cushy lifestyle. Who wants to live in Taipei anyway?? I certainly would not want to unless the money was exceptional. Is it???????????
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SIA to CAL
Hi All,
Anytime you invest yourself in a company, you don't just think your way through what happens to it, you feel your way!
The SQ pilots are justifiably proud of what they have been part of building over the years, and are angry that they are being used to make three political points to all Singaporeans - everyone's rice bowl is up for grabs, seniority stands for next to nothing, and there will always be enough expats out of work to drive wage bills down that so we don't need loyalty, we just need competent cheap low maintenance pilots.
Historically, SQ management has taken these kinds of "blunt" approaches before. They cannot be sustained over time as supply and demand forces a reality check. All that happens is that instead of a smooth competent process of managing pilots, SQ lurches towards court every few months to solve problems that it seems incapable of solving in-house.
Think of the two major components of a safety system Effective Communication and Teamwork and it is to their credit that the SQ Crew are able to focus on their comittment to their airline, and their pride - inspite of the style used to manage them.
It is also to their credit that SQ pilots have continued to try to keep their community intact, keep looking for small chances to improve their lot, and to go through these cycles bloodied but unbowed. When opportunities to go elsewhere arise, they may not be taken up by many from SQ - not due to any lack of size in their round objects, but to a persistence that is more to do with "This is my airline, I helped build it, why should I be driven out?" than it is to counting wealth from the comfort of the baronial pad.
Don't misundertand me. There are a tiny minority of a-holes in the left seat of SQ just as there are anywhere. They are dying out, and their arrogance becomes less tolerated by the day. However, as a whole, SQ colleagues are great people to go to work with, and are being managed in ways that those of you in the modern world outside cannot begin to imagine.
Instead of bashing, may I suggest a little support for the great majority who are simply trying to keep the faith.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I'm not a fan of generalised pilot bashing, and as one from SQ, I like to defend my crowd.
Anytime you invest yourself in a company, you don't just think your way through what happens to it, you feel your way!
The SQ pilots are justifiably proud of what they have been part of building over the years, and are angry that they are being used to make three political points to all Singaporeans - everyone's rice bowl is up for grabs, seniority stands for next to nothing, and there will always be enough expats out of work to drive wage bills down that so we don't need loyalty, we just need competent cheap low maintenance pilots.
Historically, SQ management has taken these kinds of "blunt" approaches before. They cannot be sustained over time as supply and demand forces a reality check. All that happens is that instead of a smooth competent process of managing pilots, SQ lurches towards court every few months to solve problems that it seems incapable of solving in-house.
Think of the two major components of a safety system Effective Communication and Teamwork and it is to their credit that the SQ Crew are able to focus on their comittment to their airline, and their pride - inspite of the style used to manage them.
It is also to their credit that SQ pilots have continued to try to keep their community intact, keep looking for small chances to improve their lot, and to go through these cycles bloodied but unbowed. When opportunities to go elsewhere arise, they may not be taken up by many from SQ - not due to any lack of size in their round objects, but to a persistence that is more to do with "This is my airline, I helped build it, why should I be driven out?" than it is to counting wealth from the comfort of the baronial pad.
Don't misundertand me. There are a tiny minority of a-holes in the left seat of SQ just as there are anywhere. They are dying out, and their arrogance becomes less tolerated by the day. However, as a whole, SQ colleagues are great people to go to work with, and are being managed in ways that those of you in the modern world outside cannot begin to imagine.
Instead of bashing, may I suggest a little support for the great majority who are simply trying to keep the faith.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I'm not a fan of generalised pilot bashing, and as one from SQ, I like to defend my crowd.
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Guys...many thoughts were given out here but the truth still lie within them. The grass MAYBE greener on the other side but if they're contented at where they are then who are we to judge???!!! My point here is that we should be supporting them instead of criticising their decisions! Am not much of an SQ fan too but I do understand their positions right now....remember, one day we might end up in their shoes too but lets hope not in anytime soon!
Last edited by geo7E7; 5th Sep 2003 at 13:59.
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Just out in Singapore Paper Streats today. CAL and Emirates are poaching for SIA Pilots with over 200 vacancies to be filled for each airline over the next 18 months. And both airlines are using local ex SIA pilot Head hunters.
Anybody care to comment? How is SIA planning to fill the gap? or are they ok with it?
GhosRider
Anybody care to comment? How is SIA planning to fill the gap? or are they ok with it?
GhosRider