Skill Test in India before Conversion of Licence
 

Laughable

1. DGCA questioning the authenticity and integrity of flight training abroad, Pot meet kettle.

2. Opens up a new avenue for flying clubs and the babus here to milk more money from the unfortunate.(This used to be done before the fictitious shortage at the beginning of the boom)

Although the Idea itself is commendable but just will not work like they way it should, here in India.

Hello,
There are some questions in my mind regarding this notice just put up by the DGCA, hope to get a answer back soon.
1.what is this test all about?Is it a practical, oral or written?
2.are we suppose to do it from the same flight school abroad from where CPL and IR was issued or it has to be done in india only?
3.what is this test all about? i mean what might be the syllabus?
4.If it can be done in the US and duly signed by an FAA inspector will that be good enough...?

Thanks a ton in advance.
God bless.!

NO TXT SPK - THNX

HWB

I kind of like saw this coming . All the DGCA officers hinted that this would be made the rule soon all thanks to the FAKE PILOT SCAM :ugh:

Not much of a difference than the old conversion chart .

The primary difference is if you want two types of aircraft ( multi and single ) endorsed on your license atleast one of the aircraft skill checks must be done in India

In Appendix I
(A) Applicants must obtain from foreign for submission along with application

If you look at item number 8 it states that the skill checks can be done abroad .

(B) Applicants need to do in India before submission of application:-

Item number 1 states that Single Engine skill checks has to be done in India .

It also states that if you only want Multi then the skill checks have to be done in India since you are only endorsing one single type of aircraft on your license .

@Intruder101
The multi skill checks and other PIC requirement can be done abroad but single engine skill checks have to be done in India . Contact a flying school ask them about the syllabus and other requirements .

I am guessing you will also need to hold an FRTOL and Student Pilot license prior to doing any recency flying in India


:ugh::ugh::ugh:

ATPL license conversion chart
 

@cyrilroy21, could you post the link forthe ATPL license conversion chart from an ICAO state (FAA)?
How much different is it from the current one to convert to the Indian CPL?

Thanks :)

The DGCA has not exactly published a Flow chart for ATPL

However you can use the application form as a checklist

http://www.dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/atpl_aR.pdf

I think the skill check requirement to be done in India will be applicable to ATPL and PPL conversion applicants .

@cyril

I have noticed that you have a keen eye for detail and are always willing to help out on any querries regarding the DGCA.

I have gone through the flowchart and I have one or two main querries.

I have been trying to get Mr Vashist on the phone but no one's answering.

Lets see if we can work out an understanding here on this forum.

here goes....

If I want a single engine endorsement on indian CPL, then the flowchart does not mention any skill test/general test/cross country test to be done abroad but I will need to do them here in india. am i right so far?

Next, if I want only multi endorsement on the Indian CPL, I still have to do the Day test, night test, IR check on the multi at my foriegn school on the DGCA format (as per point no. 8 of the first box, Part A) . Now these day/night test are general test and not skill test correct?
However the last line of point 1 of Part B (second Box) says that the skill test will be carried out in India for multi endorsement. Which test are these? are they diff from the day test/nigh test/ir check mentioned above in part A, point no. 8? do I have to repeat those in india?
What about the cross country checks by day and night? will i need to them in india or abroad if I want only multi on indian CPL because i wont do them abroad as they are not mentioned in part A and I wont do them in india as I am only asking for multi on indian CPL and for that it only says i need multi skill tests here..

So to summarise, I will be getting a multi+IFR from abroad and will want only Multi+IFR here, not single or single+IFR. What do i need to do there and what do i need to do here in terms of flying/skill test?

On a related note, what is the difference between general flight tests by day and night Versus day and night skill test? I cant find the various forms for them on the DGCA site .only found CA 40 for general flight test. which forms are to be used for skill checks and cross country checks?

would be grateful to anyone who can clarify these for me.

The Day , Night and IR check are the skill checks / tests . Form CA 40 B is used for the multi aircraft .

In case CPL is requested only on Multi engine aircraft then skill tests on
the said type will be carried out in India

It has now been decided by the Competent Authority that all applications for issue
of Indian CPL will be accompanied with skill test reports on at least one aircraft type
required to be endorsed on the Indian licence in accordance with para 4 of the said CAR.

As you can see its clearly mentioned .

If you are getting both multi and single
Then Single to be done in India , Multi can be done abroad

If you are getting only Multi
Then Multi has to be done in India.
But then you will need to do the 1 hr day check ( skill test ) , 1 hr night check , 1 IR check
but also the 250nm VFR XC ( this is also a flying test )by and 120nm VFR XC ( also a flying test) by night also has to be done on multi .

Even though the flow chart does not mention it it clearly states in Schedule II
of the aircraft rules that XC test must be done on every aircraft that you want endorsed on your license ( sometimes the licensing officer skips this rule if you do xc checks on the single sometimes they enforce it for both multi and single , better to be on the safe side )

this is as ridiculous at it can get :ugh: i'm just glad i got my license before this came into effect and i pity the ones who haven't, i just wish this rule can be overturned in due course of time

"If you are getting both multi and single
Then Single to be done in India , Multi can be done abroad

If you are getting only Multi
Then Multi has to be done in India.
But then you will need to do the 1 hr day check ( skill test ) , 1 hr night check , 1 IR check
but also the 250nm VFR XC ( this is also a flying test )by and 120nm VFR XC ( also a flying test) by night also has to be done on multi ."

I see what you mean and you do make a lot of sense.

If I understand you correctly,
If I want CPL with Multi Endorsement only, I will need to do all these tests here on the said multi engine a/c and no tests on the single engine?
Do i need to do the tests twice for multi (day, night, IR)?
or do I skip them abroad if i'm going to do them here anyways?
What about the cross country tests on multi then, since i will need these too as per this interpretation?
which ones do I do abroad and which ones here.
Why do they need these tests there anyways if they are going to do them here.
These tests are not part of the Multi and IFR syllabus there and will be extra flights which will cost money.
Im sorry to keep going on about this but I just wanna make sure the rules dont force me to duplicate flights and want to be clear what has to be done abroad and what needs to done here.

@cyrilroy
 

i dont think an SPL and FRTOL will be required because its going to be a dual check. Maybe if we are flying solo in India we need one, but thats not the case here

@stiknruddr

Whenever I say Flying tests / Skill Check It means the following
1hr day check
1hr night check
1hr IR check
250nm VFR XC by day
120nm VFR XC by night


You dont have to do those tests twice . IF you only want CPL multi then the tests HAVE TO BE DONE IN INDIA .
You can do them abroad if you want but they wont recognize it . However you will need to be multi endorsed with IR on multi on your foreign license .



If you want both Single and Multi
SINGLE FLYING TESTS HAS TO BE DONE IN INDIA
Multi can be done abroad .

@Kingmaker
The Flying tests / checks are logged as PIC . They expect you to act as PIC and part of the test means operating the aircraft radio .

I not exactly sure about the SPL part but I am quite sure you need an FRTOL
I guess its best to confirm with one of the flying schools

Indian Skill Test...
 

'Indian Skill Test'. Oxymoron. This country's aviation is an international joke and disaster.

The DGCA Skill Test is: 'How skillfully can one slip a few thousand rupees into the palm of the TRE (who also bought his license), 24, 000 hours, endorsements on 10 high performance jets and has been actively working in aviation (so he says) for 40 years and he is only 35 years old...something doesn't add up.

ICAO needs to get tough with this lot. Soon!

Cyril,

Thanks for the analysis, I am quite clear about it now.

Regarding the SPL and FRTOL, even DGCA is not clear about that yet.
I managed to speak to the erstwhile dy. director of licensing who has now shifted to a diff department.
He was one of the people who drafted this note last year and he explained it much the same way cyril has above.
When i asked him about the SPL and FRTOL reqt, he wasnt sure about it and said he hadnt foreseen that when the note was drafted. I guess they will come up with a work around for it by april or worst case, we end getting them for the skill tests.

Only 29/43 Flying Schools / Clubs are Functional In India :hmm:

List of Flying Clubs

Please do your research thoroughly before you pay any money upfront to any flying school .

One Simple Solution: DO YOUR RECENCY FROM INDIA........i know it takes time but it saves you all the trouble......:ok::ok::ok::ok:

"Skill test" in Indian aviation ! I could die laughing !!

As someone above rightly said, the only real "skill" needed in India to get a flying license is to be able to pass on some wads of currency notes and a couple of bottles of scotch whiskey to that scumbag of an officer in the DGCA in New Delhi.

more queries
 

Hey guys, just saw the amendments on the DGCA website and its got me worried :\.
1) First question, when are these amendments effective from?
2) And also, I have an NZ CPL and am in the process of doing my Multi and Instrument hours. My Dilemma is I intend to do the 40 hrs that DGCA requires, however, NZ doesn't endorse the IR on my CPL till I have sat for their IR exams (written and practical). Does that mean the skill test that is issued for the 40 hours in rendered invalid and would I have to then do an IR skill test/check flight in India. If that be so, can I do my single engine and IR skill test on the same aircraft and at the same time?
3) Lastly, does my application need to be accompanied with an AADHAR/UID number if I submit it before 1st of April?
Thanks heaps guys :)

I tried a lot of people, including those sitting in the DGCA office, and I swear to god, I still cannot comprehend how the organization runs when nobody seems to have any idea about anything. Oh and the phones are either never connected or picked up, and if they are, they redirect you back to the first chap, who doesn't even know what his name is!!! Folks you gotta help me out here!

Central Vigilance Commission unearths Rs 190 crore flying club fraud - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: A large number of flying schools across India are involved in an elaborate fraud, posing as no-profit no-loss operations while raking in crores.

An investigation by the Central Vigilance Commission has found that a majority of flying schools/clubs in India posed as registered societies, operating on no-profit no-loss basis, to avoid paying the government full fee for operations. Resultantly, the government has lost at least Rs 190 crore in revenue, according to the CVC probe.

this is beautiful :D .. the flying clubs here cheat the government so openly :p and they think the skill test provided by them is gona be any genuine :uhoh: ??? :ugh:

the dgca should now atleast have some shame :mad: to blame the authenticity of other icao states licenses and paperwork!!

Another thing! They wont accept your application without the AADHAR UID CARD from 1st April and even if i apply the card now which takes 4 months to get i will be out of recency by the time i get! Oh god!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

i wanna die! iam my recency right now and was planning to come to india & submit my application in April!!

DGCA rule
 

Guys, everything is planned. It is DGCA's plan to keep number of un-employed pilots less by not giving us indian license. So that they can show ICAO that most of Indian pilots are employed.
According to this rule, we have to fly in India for recency and as you guys know that it will take atleast 2 months to do recency in India and even quality of flying and condition of aircrafts are very bad. So it will take time.

I am doing my recency here, and told my CFI about this rule. And i will be done with my recency in 3 days. Thats good for me,

I hope you guys can also submit your paper work before April 1st 2012. If you need any help for recency or anything, feel free to pm me.

Regards,
Anil dedha.

Holding CPL ME on FAA license!!!
 

Guys I hold FAA CPL ME only. I do not have SE ad-on on FAA. Now i require SE endorsement only, on DGCA license. i have flown C 152/172 in the U.S. Am i eligible to get SE on DGCA CPL by doin GFT day/night, and all other recency req in India by flying SE here as per new rules? Also do i need to give any tech paper for SE? is FRTOL req to do recency in India? pls help...

Regarding the single engine endorsement on DGCA CPL,
the flowchart and the circular do not mention any skill test or record of ground training required from the foriegn country. nor does it mention the tech paper requirement for that aircraft here.

So if I am doing the skill tests for SE here, I dont need to do any skill tests on the same aircraft abroad and no certificate of ground training required. also, no Tech specific paper required to be cleared here for the aircraft here. Is this correct?

Also, If i have done my flying on DA-40 abroad but do the skill tests on Cessna 172 here, will there be any prob in getting the latter endorsed on indian CPL? will i need to do any recent flying on cessna 172 abroad or just come here and do the skill tests on 172 here and thats it?

ok i have a few friends who say the following:

irresepctive of the april 01st deadline
they would go to the US for their flight recency somewhere around the 16th of march as they are in the middle of the US visa process (I-20 etc) and they would come back around the 1st week of april......give just the skill test which according to them is just 1 hour day check and 1 hour night check on a single engine...........and they r good to go

on the other hand one guy says he will get all his skill tests done and signed for by a FAA examiner,as DGCA would accept it then


wonder who is right

Is anyone going to delhi for the open house?.....we can throw these questions at them instead......anybody here?????

i wish i can attend the open house but i am out of the country! somebody needs to go the open house and find out what they really want!

The new flowcharts also says the u should have cleared the papers in the last "30 months" but is'nt the papers supposed to be Valid for 5 years?
It also says u should'nt log PIC even if you have a PPL when u r flying dual but thats not the case with FAA!

Freaking dgca should be burnt to the ground!

@Flyboy7e7, the papers are still valid for 5yr, check out the link mentioned on the first post, the conversion flow chart that you referred on the DGCA website is outdated.

Hey Guys,
I called up the Bombay Flying Club and spoke to a guy who manages the paperwork and documents, and he clearly stated, that if you want to fly all your skill tests in India you need to have your FRTOL and your SPL...........
Thank you DGCA ..........I Love You.............Please bring on new rules like these ......we all would love you even more............PROUD to be an INDIAN :ugh:

How come this bring these rules with so little notification! They should atleast give a few months time to enforce! 1 month notice? really

Guy lets bombard them with phone calls & attend the open house and get this thing sorted out!

I found this on face book on the UPWA page

DGCA officials suspended for causing loss of Rs 190 cr
 

NEW DELHI: Three senior offcials from the DGCA - the country's aviation regulator- were suspended for issuing licences classifying 28 flying schools as charitable non-profit entities instead of fully commercial entities.

According to sources close to the ministry, Joint Director General A K Sharan and two other officials at the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) have been suspended and an FIR has been lodged against the erring flying clubs.

The wrong classification has caused a loss of Rs 190 crore to the Airports Authority of India (AAI). These clubs were registered under the charitable category paid a nominal fee of just 10% of the original fee they owed the government.

This nominal charge is only permitted for those that are registered as educational societies and run on no-profit no-loss basis, and not as profit-making entities. "The subsidised rates were extended to 28 flying clubs without proper examination," the source said.

This was reported in The Times of India, a sister publication of The Economic Times, in its edition dated February 28, 2012. "After a MLA made a complaint about certain flying clubs getting facilities of Category I or charitable flying clubs not fulfilling the required criteria, the Central Vigilance Commission (CVC) made an enquiry and submitted a report to the aviation ministry last month," a highly placed source said.

Based on the recommendations of the CVC, civil aviation minister Ajit Singh took the requisite action against the people involved, the source added.

While, the CVC has called this a case of criminal conspiracy between the DGCA officials and the erring flying clubs, the AAI has been asked to recover its dues of Rs 190 crore by the end of this month.

Last year in October, DGCA's audit of the 40 flying schools of the country revealed that almost all of them were flouting safety norms and were issued notices to comply with rules or else face a shut down.

False logging of flying hours, violation of standard operating procedures and lack of infrastructure were the two main discrepancies that surfaced in this audit :hmm:


DGCA officials suspended for causing loss of Rs 190 cr - The Economic Times

Quote:

---

This was reported in The Times of India, a sister publication of The Economic Times, in its edition dated February 28, 2012.

Last year in October, DGCA's audit of the 40 flying schools of the country revealed that almost all of them were flouting safety norms and were issued notices to comply with rules or else face a shut down.

False logging of flying hours, violation of standard operating procedures and lack of infrastructure were the two main discrepancies that surfaced in this audit

---

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

DGCA and HUMOR at its best.
Bad times ahead:ouch::ugh::ugh:

hi, i really need help! i have my faa multi engine instrument cpl, i.e i have given my commercial checkride in PA-34-200! so now what all do i have to do in an indian flying club in order to convert my licence! do i need to all the 6-mth requirements in both ME and SE? or any one type of a/c is ok? also in the flow chart it is mentioned for multi endorsement, we need technical pass result along with ground certificate, from where do we get that? do i need to give technical specific paper in india?

reg. SE rating (C 172) on DGCA license with FAA CPL ME(only)!!!
 

@cyrilroy21 - Cyril, I hold FAA CPL Multi engine license (only) +IR from U.S.A. I do not hold Single Engine commercial. Now i want to give checks in C 172 along with recency in India (as per new rule) and get initial DGCA CPL on C172 only. I do not want Multi engine on DGCA CPL as i have flown Beech Duchess in U.S.A, which is now not recognised in India.

My flying experience is as follows:

C 172 - 200 hrs (have done PPL, IR, hour building on C 172)
Beech Duchess (BE 76) - 25 hrs (holding CPL Multi engine license FAA, U.S.A)

Pls let me know if it is possible by flying C 172 in India, doing all the checks and recency in C 172 and get DGCA CPL+IR with C 172 rating only?

Hey everyone! Just stumbled upon this forum while trying to make sense of the new DGCA rules on Google :ugh: Things just keep getting better for Indian pilots! Sorry for the long post, but I'd appreciate any help.

I had a talk (if you can call it that) with A. K. Bharadwaj of the licensing dept. Apart from being extremely rude, what he said was it was better if I did all my recency and time building here in India, otherwise getting my license was doubtful! Talk about being extreme! Not one person is helpful and to top it off they treat you as though you were there to ask THEM money for YOUR training! So I was hoping someone here could help me out.

I take it that it would be safer to do my recency and time building (about 35 hours X-Country) here in India? Also, I have a FAA CPL ME license (ME on the Duchess). As cyril has explained in a very helpful and straigtforward manner, it would mean I would have to get all my skill tests done on the PA34, right? The remaining 5 hours IR time and night time can be done on the 172?

I had a word with the captain at Chimes Aviation and he confirmed that I would have to have a FRTOL and a SPL to fly in India AND I also have to give a technical paper for the Seneca. Kudos to DGCA to mess the whole situation up :D

Is it necessary to do recency in India from now on :ugh:, the circular is so badly drafted that am left wondering as to what does dgca really wants.

I have a CPL ME on PA 34 + IR (only) from USA and what i have planned is as follows :
1. Go to US (have to go as recency is due), get the single commercial on Cessna 152 or 172 so that am eligible on opting for one skill test in India if commercial is endorsed on two aircrafts - i think it would be economical as well as easy to find a cessna here compared to PA 34.

2. Do all my recency from USA only as even my recency is due now - i cant seem to understand why getting a license would be impossible if recency is done abroad as dgca officials are saying.

3. If not - then i need to give the multi engine skill test here in India as well as do my recency here - dont know what flight schools charge here so no clue as to what would be a viable option.
This way i can save the single commercial training cost + trip expense to USA.


What to do?

@coolboy

I might be wrong, but since you have your CPL ME rating on the PA34, its better you just get your skill tests done on it right here in India. Chimes charges around 30k/hour! But as you mentioned, you do save on travel and other expenses. Not to mention, its relatively 'safer' to get your recency done in India given the current state of affairs in DGCA

even i have the same query! even i have an faa multi commercial on a PA-34-200! so what i am assuming is that i need to do all the x-ctry checks and gft tests in a pa-34-200, so that i get a multi engine cpl, right? all these hours would add upto 10 hours PIC, so we are left with another 5 hours PIC time, which we can do in india as well! luckily i have both spl and frtol! but from where do we get technical pass result from? acc to me, if we have done training from abroad, why do we need to give technical specific exam?