So, CX called me for the "fast track"
 

I'm one the of the DESO candidates from 2008 who were basically dismissed in favor of cadets after waiting over a year in the hold pool.

Well, wouldn't you know it, recruitment called me recently to ask if I would be interested in the 12 week "fast track" program in lieu of DESO.

- 12 weeks in Adelaide unpaid for Duchess training
- S/O in HK on local terms (no housing allowance, etc)

It was hard not to laugh during the sales pitch.

So what's the deal? Are the cadets realizing the raw deal they are in for? Or is recruiting just getting desperate?

Forgive me. I haven't been on these forums for quite a while now.

Cheers

Couldn't have said it better myself! :D

Me too, same story!

Glad I wasn't drinking Milk!!!

Same Here
 

I just got that message, but will call them back and politely say what I'm really thinking.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised they didn't try and offer this sooner. But really, 2 years later, why would any of us take a worse COE, for about half the pay?

Despite the slower career progression with the increased retirement age, I would still join as a DESO. But never for anything less.

Good on ya Mates!

It is too bad most all the other cadet applicants are too thick headed to listen to those of us who know. I suppose you have to "have had" the housing to know what you rightly deserve if you are willing to live in HKG.

You poor suckers who are buying into this cadet SCHEME really are going to learn the hard way. I bet you did not believe the advice your parents, teachers, and mentors gave you either.

Who said we'll be getting the best and the brightest because the pool is so large? Well, I would venture to guess the best and brightest will be smart enough to know they can do better than living in the Tsing Yi slums.

Betpump5, you can cringe now! I bet that is what the crews who fly with you do when it is your sector.

Interesting
 

That must be an indicator that they have officially ditched the DESO scheme - Even though that was pretty obvious.
It will be interesting to se if the DEFOs in the pool will be given this offer also ;o)

Sorry to hear your news boys but you have made the right decision.

Hong Kong is no place to be without a housing allowance.

have cx indicated if you could do the DEFO route? It cant hurt to ask?
There are plenty of other jobs out there at the moment...

I hope some of you guys tell them how insulting that kind of offer is, and explain to them why you won't be going. It's simply disgusting what is going on with recruitment these days!

6.84 Billion HK (881 million USD) for the first half of 2010 and no pay during your training in Adelaide ...

I don't know if I should laugh or cry :ugh: :{ :\

And now Etihad taking International Cadet....amazing:ugh:

International Cadet Pilot

Print



Country UAE
City Abu Dhabi
Department Flight Operations
Closing date 27 November 2010


Description
If you’ve ever dreamt of becoming a pilot, then this could be your chance to train for a prestigious career with Etihad Airways.

Our new cadet pilot training programme based in the UAE, will be a full-time, 18-month course. Successful graduates can look forward to a rewarding career with Etihad Airways.

We are inviting applications for this programme and will commence assessing candidates during the last quarter of 2010

Training

Flying and theoretical knowledge training shall be the standard required to pass successfully Abu Dhabi General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA) approved examinations for obtaining a frozen airline transport pilot license (ATPL). The cadet pilot shall be flight tested to the level of CPL (UAE GCAA approved commercial pilot license (aeroplane)) and IR (UAE GCAA approved instrument rating (aeroplane)) skills test. On passing successfully all relevant examinations and fulfilling all applicable requirements of the GCAA, cadet pilots will be awarded CPL licenses with IR privilege and frozen ATPL.

The cadet pilot’s license will be upgraded to an ATPL only after fulfilling all requirements of the GCAA including but not limited to achieving minimum flight hours applicable at the time of issuance of the ATPL and provided he/she attained the age of 21 and passed the IR skills test. These entitlements are subject to change by the GCAA as necessary.

Minimum Service Period

Cadet pilots are required to serve the company as a pilot or any other position determined by the Company in its sole discretion, for a minimum period of 72 months from the date of successfully completing the training and receiving frozen ATPL.

Medical Examination

Cadet pilots will be required to undertake and pass the company’s standard medical and dental examinations prior to joining. Cadet pilots will also be required to undertake and pass the UAE government standard medical examination and the GCAA medical examination. Details will be given during a briefing prior to joining the programme.

Sponsorship and Guarantees

The company shall sponsor the cadets participation in the programme by covering the cost which shall not exceed a maximum amount of AED 500,000 (the “sponsorship cost”).

The company shall be entitled to recover from the cadet on demand the sponsorship cost on a pro rata basis (i.e in proportion to the sponsorship cost incurred by the company to sponsor participation in the programme). If, prior to the successful completion of the programme the cadet:

-fails to comply with any of the employment obligations and training attendance requirements;
-is for any reason expelled or prohibited from continuing the training and/or fails to complete the training within the period specified;
-fails to pass satisfactorily any final GCAA examination given by the training provider as per the GCAA regulation and as a result participation in the programme is discontinued;
-fails to achieve the minimum requirement of the training; make unsatisfactory progress with any aspect of the training or fails to display the necessary aptitude for the training; or discontinues, suspends or terminates training at any time before completion of the programme.

The company shall be entitled to recover the sponsorship cost in full (and subject to any right of set off as stated in the joining contract) if after completion of the programme, the cadet fails to comply with any of the stated obligations in the joining contract.

Participation in the cadet pilot programme is subject to (a) ability to obtain all required security clearances and medical approvals from the GCAA or other relevant authorities as may be required for

Qualification:
Etihad is an equal opportunities employer and encourages both male and female applicants to apply. Candidates should be:

• between 18-26 years old
• medically fit to fly
• accredited secondary school diploma or higher with proven pass grades in Physics, Mathematics and English

Please note: Candidates with a CPL, Frozen ATPL, or those who have completed their Commercial Pilot training are not eligible for this programme.

Salary & Benefits:

A monthly stipend of AED 6,000 will be paid to cadets subject to the cadet pilot’s participation in the cadet pilot programme in accordance with the employment contract.

Accommodation & Transportation

At no cost to the cadet pilot, the company will ensure the provision of accommodation in Al Ain United Arab Emirates and transportation from the place of accommodation to the place where the training is given. The cadet pilot will not be entitled to any housing or transportation allowances in lieu of the accommodation and transportation offered under this provision

This is not the job we interviewed for. Or better said, I suppose it IS the job, just half the pay...

Wow...
 

Wow, same here. They've stooped to new lows. Guess they're calling all of us to see if anyone would actually go for this. You have to hand it to them though. They're quite creative. This way they get Second Officers who not only don't get paid a housing allowance, but don't require flight training either!
2 years ago when we interviewed, DESO would have been a great career move for all of us. Now 2 years later, with more experience, we get to go there for half the pay, live in the ghetto to be a cadet pilot (with more than 4000 hours flight time), while DEFOs and captains grab all the spots ahead of us in the following years? Maybe we can give handjobs at a Wan Chai brothel to make ends meet? Think anyone will be bitter? Not exactly the way to create a positive work atmosphere.

Thanks for the "opportunity" but I think I'll go try my luck somewhere where I'll be treated like I'm worth something and not a source of cheap labour

:O Man I almost chock laughing reading your post..:D

I turned it down as well.

The offer was actually a little sheepish: "The company is going in this direction... I don't suppose you'd be interested?" I think HR was a little embarrassed to have to make that phone call.

Yeah I agree. The lady who called me sounded like she was making that call because someone told her to. It's really too bad. Sounds like Cathay used to be a great place to work

Same here, turned it down. BUT they also said ''we will keep you in the hold file for future opportunities''. Maybe for ptf???:ugh:

I don't understand why they even start calling DESO to become cadets.....what's wrong with all those cadets who are waitting and applying I thought they had 25000 application on file....

flynhigh,

good question! I was wondering the same... Perhaps near zero time applicants with little work history are not really all that attractive after all.

Just imagine. Some average student squeezes into the program with no aviation background, manages to get passed through the Adelaide course, does his years as an SO, and then 80+ JFO sectors in the first real flying of his life, captain keels over on duty, and then Joe "no time and no experience" has 300+ hoping for the best in his "well-trained" hands... I don't care if he has Part A & FCOM 3 photographed into his memory, no experience = poor decision-making and quite possibly inadequate flying skills.

Explain that one to the families, CX. How about the insurance company even...

Some day, the pundits are going to be saying that CX pushed too far, and the "stupid gweillos" on PPRune are going to be saying, "told you so..."

no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that

but no pay even while training in Adelaide just seems a bit unthinkable..

Received a call from Rachel in HR about the fast track cadet offer.

She was audibly embarrassed to make the offer, and IN FACT, agreed with me that living in HK was not possible without the housing allowance.

I cant say forsure, but i get the distinct impressions she received some rude replies prior to my call.

MSG to Cathay - thanks - but no thanks.

Question? What is the current housing allowance for DESO??? By my calculations, their offer is 33% less with the housing allowance? is this correct?

It is clear they will have to do better if they want to attract quality applicants from around the world. In the meantime well, you get what you pay for..

At the interview it was 24000 I believe. Plus 33000 salary. The real kicker is no housing until captain which is a huuuge loss in earning potential. Personally I don't need to leave my home country if I want to work for what little would be left over after paying rent in HKG.

The AOA should address the issue.

After all, do we really want to fly with 0-experienced SO/FO's for the next 20 years?

And we don't want to give Cathay an easy way to get rid of housing for us all.

thats what i recall, 33,000 hkd for salary, and 24,000 hk for allowance. Off the top of my head THIS IS A 40% REDUCTION IN SALARY.

Since its a scientific fact that CX management trolls this forumn, I would like to respectfully ask WTF your thinking?

UNBELIEVABLE!!

I applaud those who've had the gumption to turn down the offer. Many others get starry-eyed at the thought of joining and their standards take a backseat. Regardless, a tough pill to swallow after the elation of a "You're in!" call and then waiting 2 or more years. At least you were not brought to HK first and then advised of changes, reminiscent of the first B/Super B scale guys.

I too wonder what happened to the thousands of applicants that they had in hand? Perhaps if most guys turn down their recent offerings the company will be forced to have a rethink.

HK is not the place to be without housing especially when a family is in tow!

Good luck guys,

MACH.88:cool:

Just out of curiousity. Were the HK FO payscales readjusted accordingly to help the loss of housing? It seems like the SO's just got completely chopped. I don't think they'll attract any experienced people to fill the SO gap with a package like that. Even in the ME Cadets and SO's are given housing allowance.
Sad to see that CX is going in the same direction as so many other expat "career airlines":ugh:

"no housing is the norm"
 

Stallone,
You stated: "no housing allowance in HKG is the norm now, no surprises from that", but this is not correct.

Cathay is trying to paint your picture, but it ONLY applies to new joiners; this is the new "C-Scale", guys, and well done for not signing up to it. You will get nothing until your Command (10 years or so at the very least) and then only HK$24,000 or so.

Housing remains unchanged in Hong Kong for all current crew and without it life in Hong Kong would be unviable; most would leave.

Wait...So what you're saying is they "beat the old slaves less"?

ya, which is why i said "now" rather than "all along".. they've scrapped the housing allowance since eons ago, so i guess everyone thinking about joining CX now should be aware of it.

n i know w/o the housing allowance can be very tight for a single n almost impossible with a family. i'm living in Singapore, costs of living is very much similar to HK

This is obviously not going to work, once again short sighted management see it as savings over each pilots career which would be massive. All the guys joining now as cadets have the flying bug, want to be an airline pilot, fly a big jet for one of the major airlines. This soon wears off and it is just a job, still a good and interesting job but nevertheless still a job. Right now most cadets stay once they are FOs and thats because HKG is their home, if you are used to living in a small place, have your family and friends here its not so bad. International Cadets will see it another way, why work here in these conditions when I can go home and work for a descent company and have more spending power or go to the desert and get a house and a tax free salary. This is going to be interesting when it all starts falling apart and it will I have no doubt.

"It's not going to work", depends on how many are saying YES to this crap offer. CX will cross the bridge of how to make them stay if/when they begin leaving as F/Os.

Hopefully, everyone will have the same sense as the guys posting here, and NOT take the job whilst the terms are so bad. It is absolutely true - as an international cadet with no family base in HKG, you will go bankrupt coming here with no housing. Adam Goodjob - more like 15 years plus to Command, not 10!

Good on you guys for standing up to this shameful behaviour. I hope CX come to their senses soon and you can come to HKG on a decent package again. Good luck!

When people I haven't seen in awhile ask me for an update on the Cathay situation... "Hey, weren't you moving to HK?" or something along those lines, I'm honest and tell them in a very factual and non-emotional way that Cathay is hiring predominately Cadets now.

They ask what a cadet is. I explain that as well.

They ask why would Cathay do that. I explain the difference in T+C between the cheap, inexperienced cadets and the experienced expats and how cadets will save Cathay millions per pilot over a 25year career.

Their response to hearing this is always in the same vein...

"I don't want to fly on Cathay Pacific if that's the kind of pilots they hire."

Because I'm a nice guy, I explain it likely won't be a problem for a number of years as there's still a lot of experienced pilots there and the surge in cadets will take awhile to come up the system. And by that time, the manager who thought up/approved this idea will have collected years of fat bonus for his incredible cost savings. Conveniently, he/she will have left or retired as a hero by the time it does become a problem.

Sooo, I haven't been called yet :(

Wait, let me rephrase that, :)

Recruitment did say they would be calling morep people this week. so let your displeasure be heard, we need everyone to say hell no.

As a 3rd year SO I can tell you that after the first 2 years, the housing is way more than $24000 per month and actually well exceeds my 'salary'.

I recently had a pilot friend from my home country visit us and he was impressed by our lifestyle here. We rent a nice big place with plenty of space for the kids.

I tried to explain that recruitment of the future would not include housing and it sunk in to him that my 'lifestyle' would be non existent in HK without it.

"It would be damn hard" was his comment.

Damn right.

I can only urge you potential CXers to realise that the housing makes HK do-able. We may only be renting right now, but when the next property bubble bursts we will then buy our first place and have CX pay our mortgage for the next 25 years.

just a reality check for those who are still thinking about it
 

do a bit of homework ...

1. think about how many square metres/ square feet of living space you require.
I'd say minimum 50sqm / 550 sqft for a single guy and 100sqm / 1100sqft for a couple with 1 child.

2. get to grips with hong kong property market phraseology

ever heard of the word "floor area efficiency" ?

a flat will be offered for rent or sale as "gross sq/ft"
as the property developers are allowed to include your flat's "share" of the common areas, lift lobbys, in-house pool or gym and the wall thickness (yes!) as well as any balcony, aircondition unit utility area and a lot of other things in the saleable/rentable floor area.
The average "efficiency" of HK flats is around 80%

So the effect of this is: a flat that is offered as 1000sqft has actually only 800 sqft that you can use, which means you'll need a 62.5sqm/690 sqft flat for a single and 125sqm/1375sqft for a young family.

with me so far?

3. and now surf to
Hong Kong Property and Apartment, for Rent and for Sale or
Hong Kong Rental Apartments | Villas | Village Houses | Property Lease or
Savills Hong Kong Residential Property Search Website
and look what a 1375 sqft apartment will cost per month in rental ...

4. think again .....

Weird, last time I was in Hong Kong I saw a 700 sq ft apartment in Tung Chung on sale for $300k CAD. Do those no longer exist?

Huh. Not sure whether I should feel insulted or not as I haven't been called.

I think I've been swimming the longest in the pool. So long in fact they have probably just assumed that I have drowned....