What are my chances in Cathay for a Direct Entry FO?
 

Hi All,

Planning to put in an application Cathay for direct entry FO position soon. I have around 3500 total time, ATR72-500 rated with over 1000 hrs command on type. Current Australian ATPL. I know this meets the minimums. But is it competitive?

Any feedback would be great! Thanks :)

No recruitment except for cadets going on right now, and will most likely remain that way for the rest of the year. As for your experience, most of the Second Officer applicants have that experience with some SO's even having medium jet (B737,A320) FO time as well. Sorry mate. However you will never know for sure until you try. Apply and see what happens.

Best of luck

Thanks for the info Sony.

Appreciate it!

I think you'll find that the company will be more than happy to hear from you. I suspect that in the future the only way to get in will be Cadet SO (ie no housing allowance in HKG) or DEFO on to a base (no housing payment required there either).

If it's better than what you can get now then why not, but CX is not the money cow it once was for pilots

plenty of options: marry into moneyz, powerball, hook up with some columbians, performing on certain specialty websites, nba/nfl/mlb...

wait, you meant flying? none.

Anyone know roughly how many DEFO get in Cathay yearly? if they are hiring that is!

Or numbers from the past...

Please guys, do a little research if you are seriously asking if Cathay is hiring DEFO. Cathay is way over manned. There will be no hiring for the foreseeable future and certainly no DEFO recruitment anytime within the next 5 years. DESO may not even be available until 2013 or beyond due to there being so many cadet courses. Best case scenario; go somewhere else besides Cathay!

Do you have a figure greater than the 5% reported overmanning?

rubbish (IMHO)

as reported elsewhere, once again, in my opinion, future will be Cadet SO's (good for young pilots who haven't already spent their life savings on training), and DEFO's onto a base, my guess interviewing early next year. A guess only.

Look, there are plenty of junior guys who want to leave Hong Kong ASAP. They want bases; bases that are not available because of no vacancies! There will be no need for DEFO's anytime soon because of the pent up demand of Hong Kong based crews. If you honestly think there will be DEFO's in the next few years you are on crack rock.

airplaneridesrfun

CX don’t base their recruitment requirements on their current pilot body’s thoughts. You should know that by now.

ummmm, no.

just shy of 30 FO spots in Australia open, and only 11 1st preferences.
You know there is a world outside of AZ.

Right, so there are unfilled slots in AUS. That is more of an "I don't want to fly an airbus" instead of "I don't want to be based in AUS" as well as the tax situation. There are plenty of Canadians who would love a US base, or Canadian base. There are also tons of pilots who want European bases. So Aus is the exception, but also it is easy to offer temp bases in Aus and so filling the planes with pilots is easy. Why not offer some of those slots to SO's who are Australian? That would make sense; which is why CX does not do it.

Blogsey


"just shy of 30 FO spots in Australia open"

Nice!! sounds promising :)

maybe sounds promising. But if you ever get to CX as a cadet; as that is the only recruitment available then you probably will be wishing for blue sky, clean air, and family to be close by. You will have to revert to wasting time warning others that the grass is not greener on the other side, because you have none of the other things to enjoy. Perhaps you should read the main board and the discontent among the cx employees. The only positive posts you read are company posts!

Mr Airplaneridsrfun
I don't mean to flame every comment you're posting, but you could do well to separate fact from speculation.
Your comment insinuates that cadet SO is the only way of entry to CX.
As per Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home it still lists DESO and DEFO, however we know they are not currently hiring DE pilots now, and currently only the worldwide cadet entry is actively recruiting. It has been speculated by many as to the possible future recruiting methods CX May adopt.
For the wannabees, you need to expect that everything on PPrune is as per the name: rumours. Not a great deal of fact is written, and an inordinate number of negative "don't join this airline" type posters. I myself love the job, the lifestyle of a based FO is fantastic.
As for the "read the main board to see the discontent at CX", it's blindingly obviously to every sane person, that it's the complaining, bitching unhappy people that make the most noise, so be aware it's a very one-sided argument you're looking at.

Don't think though that they will be filled by DEFO yet to be recruited. As Airplaneridesrfun says, Aus is about the only base needing FO's. All the other areas (bar one) have zero vacancies and a ship-load of people asking for them.
Back in Dec '08, we were told we were 5% over-manned. Until the airline expands again, those positions will be filled internally (I speculate!!!!).

If this isn't the definition of IRONY, I don't know what is.

Not that promising.

The CX pilot union (HKAOA) took a test case to the HK labour tribunal last year regarding the employment of DEFO over the top of DESOs. The labour tribunal found in favour of the pilot.

The damages the labour tribunal awred to that pilot were about HK$270,000, CX tried to settle the matter for less than HK$5,000.

One of the points in the labour tribunal decision was that CX must assess every SO before a DEFO could be considered (that is part of the contract, CX was ignoring that provision). CX has not held an assessment board since around the time that the HKAOA lodged the labour tribunal case, that was the second half of 2007. This is the way CX is using the system to allow DEFOs, the company has plenty of people in house that can jump into the RHS.

The company also does this to get around not paying the contractual bypass payments to SOs and FOs that were employed before these direct entry people were employed, some SOs would have 300-400 direct entry FO an CN behind them, but does to the way CX manipulated the system, only 3 SOs are presently on bypass pay.

At the moment numerous SO would be at around 4 years in service with CX, with CX artificially preventing them from being reviewed by the upgrade board (by not holding them for over 2 years now), and artificially being held down for promotion. These SOs have passed and met all the requirements needed (and a lot of them joined CX with more experience than current DEFOs). CX is also artificially preventing them from applying for base positions, as you need to be assessed for that as well.

CX appealed the labour tribunal decision in February this year, the outcome should be know soon enough, but I would think that the aspect that all SO be reviewed before a DEFO would be upheld. That would mean you would have 300-400 SOs that would need to fail assessments before a single DEFO could be employed.

If you knowingly join CX being made fully aware of the situation that you are being used to screw over SOs that in some cases would have twice as much experience as you have (on everything from 747s to military fast jets), do not expect to be welcomed with open arms by your more senior fellow pilots that have been in line already for the years for the RHS slot.

If you think this post is over the top feel free to email hkaoa at hkaoa.org to confirm it.

Firther details about thecourt case can be read http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...ay-case-4.html

Maybe best to just apply DESO ey!!

:ok:

Hey Eiffle, out of interest, what's wrong with the job you have now? It's at home isn't it? Riding the jumpseat out of someone else's backyard sounds like a backward step doesn't it?

DESO in it's traditional format has gone the way of the dinosaurs. It is however due to return within the next few months under the guise of "Short Course Cadet SO". I believe it will have a similar format to the Qantas Level 2 Cadet Course (if anyone happens to be familiar with that), although obviously built around HK exams/licenses rather than Aus. Somewhere in the vicinity of 2-3 months in ADL I understand. Definitely require a CPL, not sure about IR or hours requirements.

The catch? No (or perhaps sometime in the future reduced) housing assistance of course!

As for DEFO, in my opinion when and how much will depend to some extent on the outcome of the BPP court case/appeal.
Or perhaps the "new DEFO" will fly freighters out of Shanghai with "Air China Cargo" written down the side....:}

Hey Dusty, yeah true... but something about flying for a major such as Cathay that gets to the aspiring long haul Pilot. Its a great company to work for I'm sure! Not surprising why there are a number of Aussie boyz working there now :D

Perhaps you should read some posts on the main forum before making such statements, "great company to work for".
Honestly the worst I've ever worked for, the only thing keeping me here is the housing allowance. Salary is sh1t and getting worse by the day, there is no respect for conditions of service, if flight and duty time limitations get in the way of commercial gain they get a dispensation (what does limitation mean to you?).
The association recently ran a survey on loyality, just on 50% said no loyality at all and another 20ish% said very little - let me spell that out for you 70ish% have very little to no loyality to the company. Great company to work for? Not even a good one.............

So why are you still here?

coffeelovesmilk.com | pilot jobs worldwide

coffeelovesmilk.com | pilot jobs worldwide

Are times getting better at CX?

=
 

Not necessarily, CX has been accepting applications the whole time. Unless I'm missing something with your post.

Sloppy
 

Sloppy try reading my post. If it's too long try the 2nd line after the first comma.
I thought I made it reasonably clear. However, to spell it out to you, again. I'm not a bitter and twisted individual , just over 70% of the respondants to the Association's survey, said they have very little to no loyality to this company. Does this indicate to you that it is a "great company" to work for?
Good aircraft, good roster, good guys, sh1t company.

Eiffle2,

In case you haven't done a search on the recent history of DESO/DEFO hiring, I'll fill you in. There isn't any. I don't know why the website is still accepting applications, but DESO/DEFO is dead as a doornail. There are a whole bunch of us who were interviewed two years ago and are still "waiting". The most recent communication from Cathay a couple of months ago was that it was unlikely any DEFO hiring until 2012. The guys I know who were there for DESO are still "waiting" as well. So, in theory it could be four years from interview to hire. In reality, I don't think they will ever hire DESO/DEFO again, but that's just my opinion.

In hindsight, it's probably a good thing they never gave me a start date. I don't know anyone there who is even remotely happy.

Don't waste your time with Cathay. If you must, put in an application, but don't expect a call for many years, if ever.

hahaha, coming from someone who doesn't even work here. That's funny.:ok:

Coming from someone who does, I couldn't agree more with the Northern'er..

Thanks for all the inputs, comments and opinions fellas. Everyone seems to have their own about this company whether good or bad! :ugh: All points are taken.

At the end of the day if you like to know and see, find out for yourself :}

Happy Flights!

To Eiffle2

Had a quick look at some of your posts and from your experience level I would say you would have been right in line for DESO - if they were doing that still. It is becoming relatively official now that it will be a cold day in hell before CX hires DESOs again (no more expensive expat benefits you see).

When the upturn translates into hiring again they WILL hire DEFOs directly on to bases (no expensive expat benefits you see). However, I am no expert on the matter but with 'only' 1000 hours command on 'only' an ATR72 you will not be eligible for DEFO recruitment. I understand they want some of that elusive jet time for DEFO.

So go buy your rating at VB or J* and call them again after you've been working there for a couple of years. CX will be more than happy to take you on then. However as a CX DEFO going on to an Australian base, you will be paid less than either of those low cost carriers would be giving you. Hmm seems that CX has champagne taste but beer budget when it comes to pilots.

Well CXmonkey, this time I pretty much agree with you.
I wish it weren't true, but the days of really exceptional pay for pilots, anywhere in the world, is gone I think.
However, is that really the case that both VB and J* pay more? Is that first year salary? How does it compare after a year or two? Do you have some numbers?
Like all airlines, alas, it's true: champagne pilots on beer budget.
Good thing I like beer.

Regarding DEFO's, the current info out there is correct: not starting again until 2012. But keep in mind the company is just guessing. No one has a crystal ball, (especially) not even the Swires. If the current trajectory is anything to go by, CX, like most airlines, has seen a big upswing in business, bringing in more $$ than budget. If things do continue that way, it'll be full hiring ahead, once again.

But who knows?

blue,

Just a strike away from getting pay back to where it should be, don't worry! Pretty sure the AOA will give the company the same amount of time that individual pilots were given to decide on their contract (COS'99 to COS'08).

CXmonkey,

VB and Jet* is definitely being considered! I know its very competitive out there now.

Will just wait and see :) Thanks bud!

Just out of curiosity. Cathay FOs in base ports will get paid less than a LCC pilot! hmmm.... Considering Cathay is a Major carrier

I work for CX and I can tell you it is not a happy place. You would be much better working for a company in a 1st world country where you have at least some chance of your contract being upheld. The pay is inadequate to bring up a family and have any left over. If it wasnt for the housing allowance (will is gone for most if not all new joiners form now onwards) I would be working for a LCC at home. The good old days are gone at CX.

?
 

Not in the states! First-Five year FO pay is higher than any LCC and Major!! Not to mention CX still has a pension plan which most companies abolished during bankruptcy proceedings.

comparing oranges
 

Just reading the VB EBA 2007. Notable figures:

73 FO 101-120K
73 CAPT 185K
EJet FO 81-96K
EJet CAPT 148K

Think there's an additional annual bonus in the 4-8K arena depending.

All AUS$.
11/12 days off per 28.

It's not longhaul but reasonable coin and living in Oz. Progression almost certainly more rapid than CX would be my guess. Not claiming to be an expert - that's just what it says.

What are the current figures for an Oz based FO with CX?

I would concur with the others on this forum; if it weren't for the housing allowance I would be moving on. Also, when considering the t&c between Cathay and others keep in mind that at Cathay they haven't even kept up with inflation. This is the trend: DOWN. At least with some other carriers; while the pay may seem less than at Cathay, you can expect to keep up with inflation and have an upgrade in reasonable time. Honestly if I could turn back the clock, I would not be working for Cathay. :{

For those you tell me to leave, read the the end of the first sentence!