DESO/DEFO hiring
 

Ladies/Gents,

Any ideas out there ref hiring of DESO's and DEFO's for next yr? Does anybody have the inside scoop on what's going to happen?

I'm sitting on a DEFO yes letter from last yr...hoping things pick up soon!

Post away...Thanks!

I am in the same boat but for DESO. I have heard several different rumors none that have been confirmed.

I have heard that they expect to resume direct entry FO and SO courses early next year. However I am wondering if the direct entry SO program still exists with the new international cadet program having just started.

But then I have also heard CX are forecasting a pilot surplus next year and are delaying Cadet Pilot Courses by 6 months or so. All rumors so until the official word comes we can only speculate.

I am planning for the worst but hoping for the best!!!

Im in the DEFO pool and spoke to HR a couple of months ago, I was told nothing for atleast the first 6 months of next year...
But things have picked up a bit since then (I think) with HKs economy coming out of recession, so who knows maybe things will speed up a bit. Looking on the bright side ofcourse.

Spoke with HR recently aswell, and they said no change for recruitment for the rest of 09' and early 10'. But said we should hear something later this year. Basically standby to standby.:ugh:

I contacted HR earlier this summer (DESO poolie now for 12mos), as mentioned above, expect an update later this year. I would be very surprised if CX picks up hiring before end of 2010. I have not heard them returning to the original schedule for new aircraft delivery (other than the odd ERF trickling down to service), which I believe was the catalyst for 2007-2008 hiring projections. Until we see these new hulls in the fleet, I don't expect direct entries being needed; cadet scheme will take care of the attrition etc.

Having said that, the old saying "airlines are always either hiring or furloughing" is still valid, so if CX is not furloughing, pretty soon they must be hiring. At least that's what I keep telling myself. Otherwise what's the point of waiting?


T

I have also been in the pool for a year. Keeping my hopes up for the september update, as anything can happen...

Looking at the last basings bid, I don't think there will be any FO positions available for new hire DEFO's in North America and Europe as there is a lot demand for the coming year from within the company to fill these positions. Australia seems to have a handful of unfilled FO positions available.

Thanks for the heads-up. Any news is better than no news at all.

With more SLS at KA I guess the dream of working for CX is only that DREAM....:ugh:

Guys, at the risk of sounding negative and disgruntled ( ok, maybe I am a smidge ) here are some facts.
The 2 whinging GMOs of KA/CX are still crapping on about business being 15-25% ( depending which week ) down on last year, this despite most flights being full, apparently there is no yield ( so sack commercial then, they are obviously not doing their jobs ).
KA is going to be overcrewed by 40 in the next 6 months with a cadet course still waiting for a job, and apparently we are all one big happy:yuk: family now so theoretically the " group " is at least 40 overcrewed, once intergration happens, which is currently in the pipeline, then there will definitely be no hiring in CX/KA until the numbers are right.
As flynhi mentioned, UPL has been mooted for both CX and KA next year around April when the current SLS is finished. BTW, CX are the type of people that come begging to their employees, cap in hand, bottom lip quivering, for assistance and then go out the next week and buy 3 billionHKD worth of shares. They made a truckload of money on that but nobody has seen their UPL replaced, their is absolutely no good will in CX/KA.
CX are apparently doubling their cadet intake as they have worked out ( derr ) that cadets are far cheaper than DESO/DFO, their is a rumour that in the near future ( dont know how near ) their will be no DESO/DEFO.
Hopefully all this delay in your intakes will mean you can go out and find good jobs with someone other than this pack of :mad:
Best of luck

"However I am wondering if the direct entry SO program still exists with the new international cadet program having just started"

Was at the cadet pilot inteview recently and my first question to HR was why the program was suddenly opened up to me and other non-HK residents. They simply said its a cost cutting move of the future, with the main benefit of removing the expensive housing allowance for expats, particularly on the DESO role.

They said all SO going forward are to be local HK employees, and therefore given the role of a SO, it makes more sense to have a bigger shift to cadet intakes who generally are easier to accomodate the program. I interpreted this as a move to higher numbers of officers down the bottom end of the salary range, who are more likely to accept the move to HK, the salary and less likely to cause problems of promotion issues for the next 3 years with the gratitude of being bought into the industry. They said 50+ spaces on cadet program this year and that will increase again further so sounds consistent.

I dont think they are removing DESO completely, but I dont think the route of DESO is now what it used to be at Cathay and is only getting more restricted. In leyman terms, DESO are expensive in their job funtion relative to cadets and DEFO. Probably true as the info I was told was that SO's are on around £30.5k and FO's around £54k. Graduating cadets im sure will stay down the bottom range for at least 2-3 years.

some hard facts..
 

I spoke with fltcrew recruitment a few days ago, and the gist of the conversation was that they don't expect to run any DEFO cses until mid next yr, all depending of course on the state of the economic recovery, etc etc etc.

I'm not an insider but I do think that with the numbers of a/c on firm order, things should spool up (for DEFO's at least) next yr....at least I hope so!

This is a useful thread and is largely clear of the usual sniping and complaining so prevalent on Pprune, so keep the rumours/gouge flowing guys! :ok:

"They said all SO going forward are to be local HK employees, and therefore given the role of a SO, it makes more sense to have a bigger shift to cadet intakes who generally are easier to accommodate the program."

Well then I guess those of us in the DESO Pool just sit and wait for the bad news:{ Unless they decide to still honor the offers they have to people sitting on a yes letter which there was a rumor floating around might be the case. I guess we will know in a few months when they send out the next update. Any thoughts about DESO?????

Any one have any ideas if cx would be willing to change someone from a DESO to a DEFO? Been sitting on the yes letter for about a year now and in that time have become a narrow body skipper (737) so would be interested to know if it would be possible to switch to the DEFO role?

Thanks :ok:

Citiflyer2009, they said this to you then did they?For an ''aspiring novice'' your post seems rather informed(arbitrary).

Just wondering what kind of experience you guys have applying for DESO?

I currently have 1400TT/800ME, frozen atpl

I applied for DESO but am wondering if its worth applying for the CPP seeing as it is moving?

Thoughts?

brns2, if you can handle no wage for a year and no housing allowance in HK (a huge amount), I'd say go for it. Truth is, you'd probably be better off in GA.

BRNS
You are probably a little light on experience for SO at the moment but I wouldn't recommend applying for the CPP especially with the experience you have.

The trueth is as an expat it is only the 'housing allowance' that differentiates Cathay from many of your own national airlines. As an SO the housing allowance almost doubles your pay. Rent over here is extremely expensive and without any subsidies you would probably spend close to 50% of your pay in rent for a small unit. You can use your housing allowance to pay your mortgage which after 15 years gives you an additional bonus as it is YOUR unit to do with as you like.

I recommend you keep flying get some more multi under your belt and apply again,either as a DESO or DEFO. There are many rumours about what may happen to the DESO position in the future,but at the moment that is al they are, rumours.
Enjoy the flying you are doing now and make the most of it, cos as an SO (long haul) its not flying, its just monitoring.
Besides the more time you have the more marketable you are to other airlines as well, not just cathay.

Good luck

Any ideas as to when we will receive the update letter, they said initially the 3rd quarter of 2009, so that would mean the end of September at the latest, lets hope to hear some news soon.

It looks like there is no shortage of applicants for the new CPP program. Second interviews for expatriate applicants are going on this month in HKG. Personally, I can't see any reason why CX would hire DESO's at the present time as the CPP program is also offered as a short course to applicants with previous flight experience and CPL/ATPL. The cost savings are huge as there is no housing allowance.

As for DEFO's, we are parking more pax aircraft (340's and 744) which probably will be offset with new aircraft deliveries, there is a growing pool of over 100 SO's waiting for their JFO upgrade, plus there is rumours flying around that the bases will be opened, so HKG based crews can move back to their home country if desired, saving CX expatriate benefits. What effect this has on the DEFO hiring? I have no clue, but why would CX run DEFO courses when we all got invited to take unpaid leave for 2010. If there will be any DEFO courses in the near future, be prepared to get offered the 744 in North America as most freighter FO's signed over to the new COS and 777 conversions will be awarded in seniority.

thanks gravox and bubbamc for the advice.

I guess i will just need to be patient and grateful that i have a job atm!

Just purely out of interest (fiancee works for CX out of LHR and we have family in HK) what typical experience have CX looked for in the past for DESO / DEFO positions?

I have over 1500hrs on 737 Efis, with just under 2000 TT.

I was under the impression (from earlier this year) that CX had quite a large demand for new crew over the next 3 years. I had hoped to maybe be in with a chance of getting into CX within the next 3/4 years, however starting to seriously doubt that now.

Cadets seem to be the way forward for them.

Cheers

JAS

When I interviewed I had 7600 total time 6200 Jet 4000 Jet PIC. Typed in A320-EMB-190-CRJ-200, Instructor and Check Airman on all 3 planes. The sad part is I had the lowest time in my group DEFO, I gues I spend to much time in school house:=.

Heya Sir Donald,

Yeh - didnt get through which was a shame but thought would pass what i got told. They gave a little booklet out before hand which had some prep info for the interview, but it also talked a lot about the cadet allowances and salaries etc hence where i got the numbers from.

At the same time, so not to sound too pessimistic, they did say thats the nature of the industry, ie uncertain, and times can easily swing back to good where hiring would increase again. Can only get better really so thats a positive. Cant really say much else but really hope you guys all get there in the end.

Hi Everybody, tks for creating this thread....
I'm a DEFO waiting for a course to start; I talked to HR recently and I was
told to call them back by the end of the year to have latest news. Good luck to
everybody in my same situation....keep posting latest news/rumors!!

Hi Guys,

Iv'e had my name in the hat for a couple of years now for SO; I have 4600tt, over half of which is EFIS Turbine PIC, (no jet time).

Any ideas as to what the max age cutoff is for SO?

Cheers!

I know of few guys who got on in their late 30 and 2 in mid 40. So I dont think it really matter. The problem is that they are not hiring and who knows when will they start again.:{

Doesn't look good for any DESO/DEFO hiring in 2010 as the Cadet's starting with CP31 just got advised by management that they will not get offered employment after finishing their course and have to wait to get hired until CX has a need for more pilots.

ok
 

thanks GTC.....

And just to add another layer, CP35 starts this month with the international cadets(1st course). It will take them 14 months to complete the course so they will be up and running early 2011. So no need to draw you a picture.:uhoh:

GTC58, could you kindly advice where you got this information about CP31 from? It seems unusual for Cathay to continue training if they are deferring job offers to cadets. Elaboration would be welcome.

Thanks,
guybrush

What the DFO said is that there will be a break between finishing the course and commencing employement with CX.

Thanks a lot goingdown, really appreciate it!

Do you know how long the wait is?

Cheers,
guybrush

CX still continue's with the Cadet Program, however employment with CX and starting the SO training will be delayed until there is a need to hire more pilots.
As for a time frame, your guess is as good as mine. Some say we are still a couple hundret pilots overcrewed, however don't know if this is correct.

I thought it was 40, read it somewhere (probably on pprune).

But thanks a lot for the info :ok:.

guybrush

Hey guys!

Thought you might be interested to see this: HKG - Cathay Pacific Airways - Pilot Career Centre.

It was updated today to say that CX is now interviewing s/o and f/o. Hope its helpful info.

Cheers,
guybrush

Check under the notes

Cathay Pacific Not Hiring Pilots for the time being - due to the Global Economic Crisis and the resulting reduction in passenger and cargo demand.

Hope things pick back up again, EK, QR, EY are all Hiring again maybe CX will also, The problem with EK is they lost 106 pilot in one year:eek: I dont think CX lost any

Hot off the press... (as of this morning GMT) HR have said that even tho numbers have not been finalised yet (maybe by mid November). CX plan to have a "FEW" DEFO/DESO courses for 2010.

PM :suspect: :ugh:

This one seems a good news to me! I think there is the risk that no DEFO/DESO courses will start in 2010......so few courses is better than no courses at all! Do you agree?

Great News Thanks

Does anybody know how many are in pool waiting for course, DESO and DEFO. :ok: