yuvraj88

Hi Guys, i m Yuvraj, i am from Mumbai, i need your suggestions and advice i am looking forward to get into the airline industry, i always had a passion to fly, but money matters had always put me down, but i thought unless i give it a shot ill never know, i don't wanna look back and regret for not taking chances, recently Ive met a USAF retired pilot who inspired me sooo much that i am determined to be a pilot now. so i have started doing my homework by gathering as much information as i could.

About me - i am 24, i have finished my 10+2 with PCM after finishing i have minored in BA and also hold Diploma in Audio Engineering, i am physically fit, 5 feet 11 inches, no glasses, have been doing P.T religiously for past 1 year, recently started practicing Yoga (which is absolutely amazing) and i don't smoke, i am planing to join CAE to get my CPL and have no prior experience in aircraft's ,Flying, or airline industry, my doubts are is it safe taking a loan and getting a CPL?, (i know its obviously not) how bad can it be? which institute do you think is the best to do my CPL Training, Ive seen majority of the new pilots are CAE Pass outs, do you think CAE is the best option, the Indigo Cadet program they have looks promising but is it really worth spending 45 Lakh rupees for a job assurance? or would you guys recommend any other options? how do you see the future in Indian airline industry? ive heard its better than most countries. (as in developing). the instrument rating, and flying hours you get as a student at a flight school, is it enough to get you a job as a pilot in India? what do the airlines look for in a candidate? what makes you standout as a fresh promising aspirant apart from the flying hours. whats the starting pay as a trainee pilot in domestic airlines in India?

I'd really very Thankful to if you could clear my doubts and give me some good advice on how and where to start.

Thank You So Much

Mentat

CAE Gondia is the only option..if you cant get through then dont become a pilot.

yuvraj88

i am sorry but, cant get through what?

stiknruddr

I have a cpl of things to say...

@Menta - there are other schools and other countries where one can go for training. if CAE was the only one worth going to, evrything else would have shut down already.

@original poster - Cost wise 45L isnt bad if it includes the cost of type rating. you will spend the same if you train elsewhere and then spend on your type rating. However keep in mind that although the program promises a job with Indigo, there are no guarantess in this field. the economic situation may change tomorrow or CAE and Indigo may part ways or any other number of things may happen. Take CAE if you get it but work hard and prepare as though you are competing in the open market with all other unemployed pilots.
Regarding quality of training, a lot depends on the work you put into it and how much you take advantage of the resources provided by the flight school/ ground school. CAE, IGRUA, Chimes or any other in India or abroad, pick one with good infra, good reputation. visit them in person before you sign up if thats possible for you.
Lastly, you are entering a profession that requires lot of hard work, constant studies, knowledge upgrades and a lifelong quest for excellence. make sure you are ready for that. There is no shortage of first officers in the airlines who were never able to increase their level and so are just not fit to command a plane and are stuck as FOs forever.

these were my 2 cents.
in the end you have to make the decision
all the best

Mentat

There may be many schools out there but CAE is the only one which gurantees a job. IGRUA could be considered too. If he cant get into any of these two then he shouldnt think of becoming a commercial pilot.

Joining any other school especially in India would be stupid.

Regarding other schools going out of business..give them another year..we will talk then.

I have seen 6 training institutes in India and all of them are pathetic when compared to even a low grade school in CAnada/Australia in terms of training.

To the OP there are 4-5000 unemployed CPL holders in India plus many thousands who are waiting to clear their DGCA papers. So please eaither make it through CAE or maybe IGRUA otherwise look at other careers. (IF you have rich parents who can continue to support you for as long as it takes then go ahead and do your training from Australia/Canada..dont go to the US)

yuvraj88

@Stiknruddr thank you so much for a sensible reply,

From what Ive heard all expats will be wiped out by 2013 that means more promotions and more openings for FO's if economy was the concern everyone would just give it up sit home and whine about it. i heard this from a former United Airline Captain and a Delta Captain both have clearly told me Airlines in India have a much better future than most countries now these pilots have been in the industry have traveled the world and worked in India for the last 5 years. so they know what they are talking about, also i believe the CAE Indigo Cadet Pilot Program makes sense. you see its better than paying almost 50 lakh for the Cadet program,and have a job assurance or pay 30 Lakh for just a CPL and be jobless. my only concern is how do manage to pay back such a huge amount if you are taking a loan, an FO's salary is 1.5 lakh that's what Ive heard, now how do you make a repay plan out of this salary. i don't care if i am rich, first love was flying, since i was a kid i wanted to fly planes parents could never afford to pay such an amount neither then and not a chance now, i have an opportunity to make a dream reality. and i will do whatever it takes.

PT6A

Expats won't be gone in 2013, they have been saying for over 5 years they would get rid of them.

In the event they did it wold mean less jobs for Indian pilots, as they would have to park aircraft... This would then mean less jobs for Indian First Officers.

Once KingFisher goes under this will place a lot of type rated and experienced First Officers and Captains onto the market... I'm sure IndiGo and GoAir will be quick to make the most of this.

You have been given good advice an MPL from a school attached to / in contract with an airline is pretty much your only bet in the current market.

estranged soul

@yuvraj88
Im sure you've got this info from a cr@p of a newspaper called Times of India. (also known as the TOI-let paper) .

I have also been hearing this "expats to be phased away" and "India to get rid of expats" music for the last 7 odd years, and believe me, the number of expats in India has only been increasing, if anything.
Every airline in India has a good number of expats, and rightly so.
There simply is not enough local suitably qualified crew to command the number of aircraft. and Im only talking about line captains here.
There is then the shortage of check pilots, Instructors and Examiners amongst all fleet in all the airlines in India.
If indeed, hypothetically, all expats were asked to leave immediately, then what we would see is several flights getting cancelled because of airplanes being grounded.
The upgrading of Indian FO's would become a very slow process, thus further reducing opportunities for aspiring CPL holders.

As for the last part of your sentence .. well, my friend, a few wise souls did make the right decision of postponing or simply trashing away their plans of investing their parents life savings into this corrupt, unfair and poorly regulated industry. They are now settled in their lives very nicely and financially comfortable and secure. A few of them with a passion for flying, saved a bit and chose to pursue a Private Pilot's License and fly for leisure every now and then and taste the cream of this profession.
The rest .. well ... it's a sad sad story to say the least ...
Ask around and see for yourself ... 6000 plus unemployed pilots with a CPL fighting it out in an extremely unfair playing field for a few jobs.
Be prepared to see a lot of nepotism, favoritism and dirty politics during airline selections.

If you have the zest and passion to pursue flying and get into airline operations, by all means go for it.
Just make sure you have the financial capability to go through the whole CPL/airline job hunting/type rating training saga, and more important, be mentally and emotionally prepared to face the worst.

Several thousands have been through this ordeal.
The lucky and influential few made it with a few minor cuts and bruises.
The majority have had to face insurmountable financial agony and emotionally grief.

Good luck with your plan.

Mentat

Read this twice Yuvraj!

Make it through CAE my friend..its your only option. exapats have been going home since 2010..lol..its never going to happen. I am assuming you are a graduate, so get a job and get a PPL slowly building your time (if you cant get through CAE or maybe IGRUA).

yuvraj88

hmm good info, thanks for the heads up guys, what i find it hard to understand is how come CAE is recruiting pilot for the Indigo cadet program when there are so many unemployed CPL holders out there, and most of the recruits are getting jobs right after they finish their course. i just don't get it, is it that indigo have decided that they'll only hire Cadets? i just wanna make sure that i get a job if i take a loan of such a huge amount to sponsor for this program, i should be able to pay it off. i tried messaging few of the pilots i found on the testimonial page of CAE Gondia website who successfully got the job with indigo Cadet Program, but none of them have replied yet. are there any in this forum who can help me out here a bit?

yuvraj88

just spoke with the inquiry department from CAE Gondia, they guy was very co-operative, i asked him all different question, i asked him about the Cadet Program he told me, the program offers you an interview with the airline, and if you pass all interviews and sim checks they will hire you. its not a 100 % job guarantee, so guys my question is what are the factors that determine you fail or pass the Sim Checks ?

yuvraj88

also is it really necessary for a CPL holder to be Type rated in order to get a job? dont the airline sponsor for your TR if u are good Candidate?

captjns

Guys and gals, the fundamental reason why expats are in any location, not just India is to support the growth of that particular country’s industry be it airline, medical, engineering or whatever. Expats are not to replace, or displace anyone from a potential position.

No matter the industry, no company is going to jeopardize their reputation, or risk an inferior product by permitting unqualified personnel to command such an operation.

That said, be patient, learn, study, master your craft, and before you know it you’ll occupy the left seat. The need for expats will diminish, and voila, no more.

yuvraj88

@captjns
i guess ill have to agree with you after having spoken to so many now.

i spoke to an FO at Air India and this is what he told me -

"The Avaiton industry world wide is currently not in a very good place. But the future of aviation is indeed bright, especially in India where the airlines have major expansion plans"

captjns

I agree. India is yet an untapped market for air transportation bound for expansion... If the government would allow for private carrier expansion without prejiduce.

Currently one faces many obstacles because of the bureaucracy and the outdated system. I hope the Central Government will attempt to overhaul the DGCA, and their system.

Johny Boy

Getting CPL is better option against MPL which is type / procedure specified sponsored ( partially ) program by organizing airline.

Quality of Training matters not Quantity.
Quality of Training school matters not Quality of chosen geography.
Quality of Effort spent to understand basic of aviation studies matter not Quality of Instructor doing spoon feeding.
Brand name have no bearing in Aviation other than for boasting.

At last Training should be flexible to your needs not on your school's with provisions of further changes as per student pilot.

Is there need of TR for fresh CPL ?
Ans - No certainly not in my thinking, look around you.Have a visit to DGCA if you are from NCR and ask pilot's with black printed Type on their CPL's waiting for NOC for TR renewal.Just lurk around this forum and read every TR related thread or ask some pilot's who got job recently about how they got job and who got them RATED on type...not many with TR got job.Those who got were either from different league then rest or had silver lining in there collar.


Things changes in matter of time, one day A is big other day B will be big what a new entrant must do is plan properly about different stages involved in getting flying license to job.
Plan about finance / training period / training devices / how to spent idle time when you have nothing to do( waiting for license or job ).

Indian aviation is at its extreme corrupt stage right now and God knows how long will this last....but keeping hope is not bad idea when some one is good and deserving enough to fight for right seat job with out paying a penny to pimp's.
What you should do at your stage is plan for things and execute them in timely manner.

Lastly Expat term is grossly used to project Boom or Gloom of Indian Aviation and was introduced by our so called media savvy airline operators along with journo's of national daily to sell story about how big Indian aviation will be in a nick of time.When things go bad blame expat's for it , when things get good make local's hero of aviation.This things happens in every sphere of world and will continue to be there.

With all this post and suggestions , i do not think you will end up doing right things in wrong way.
All the best !

Stick_Rudder

Excellent posts Johny and captjns...!!!

@yuvraj88,
Bro, read this sentence by captjns again and remember it for a lifetime.
As you already know, what CAE offers is only an interview with Indigo and it's not a 100% job guarantee. You will be selected solely on the basis of how you perform out there during the interview and the other stages of selection to follow.

What i fear is that, if for any given reason a cadet is not selected (which is a possibility, and cannot be over-looked), then what you are left with is a CPL along with a A320 type-rating. Now what happens is that the cadet is limited to apply for a job with companies operating A320 only, thus missing out on the chances for applying with companies operating other types of aircraft.
After failing to get selected with Indigo, if a cadet applies elsewhere, the other operators may consider why he/she, being a cadet, was not selected with Indigo.

And as Johny_Boy pointed out about the corruption, i fear it's presence after your completion of the program. The corrupt people know that you are running out of options and try to get advantage of the situation.

So what i personally think is that one should always keep his/her options open rather than going for a type-rating before getting a job.

Please correct me if i am wrong anywhere.
Good Luck

P.S.: Ignore this message if you belong to the influential lot.

stiknruddr

First of all, similar names but diff people (Stiknrudder , Stick_rudder)

I agree with the poster above.
The job and career will happen if you do the training right and work hard to make yourself desirable to a recruiter by building up the required knowledge and displaying the right attitude.

For now I want to focus on the training aspect of flying.
I agree with Johnny_boy's post above about getting a cpl and just want to add my views about choosing a school .
A good school may not necessarily produce a good pilot but a bad school/bad training most likely produces bad pilots.

I have nothing against CAE and NFTI but I am dead against putting all your eggs in one basket, ie. indigo and A-320, as commented by my similarly named colleague above.

My biggest grouse against Indian flight schools as they are currently run is the lack of flexibility.
They take a large amount of money upfront and have fixed batches like a college.
from my own visits and survey of their facilities, the planes were available on paper but servicability was an issue and instructor availability was a major problem, especially on the multi.
so you cant fly when u wish to. you may have prepared and planned a flight but someone else has been waiting before you and gets to go and next day weather may not be good so you keep waiting for your turn.
I am not making this up, was told this by students at these schools and confirmed it from staff members who are known to my family personally.

on the other hand, where I eventually went for training in Canada, the course runs all year round and you are free to join at any time. the aircraft and instructors were always available and I never had to cancel because of either of them not being available.
plus I paid after every flight not upfront. so I had a say in my training and could change instructors/school if I was unsatisfied.
most importantly, there is a minor difference in cost between here and canada/US and it makes sense to go there as the instrument rating is a lot more structured and organised under FAA and TC syllabus as compared to DGCA.

cheers

captjns

Very good post and spot on stiknruddr !

No matter the location of the flight school, be it India, US, Philippines, Canada, one must do their due diligence to ensure the authenticity and quality.

Be wary of those schools that may require full tuition upfront. There have been cases where the owners absconded with the funds and the poor students were left holding nothing more than a log book with a few hours logged. That is probably the biggest concern. Also some big name training organizations with the word “Academy”, charge more money for the same training than other organizations with the word “Flight School”.

Some flight schools have different types of aircraft within their training fleet such as Cessna, Piper, and Diamond. People tend to gravitate to different models too.

Living accommodations may or not be provided. That said, take the schools recommendations. But also to save money or get more for your money, Google search apartments available in the town where your training airport is located. Ask about public transport as well if you don’t have a car. That will be more important and a better cost savings over taking taxis back and forth unless there four of you in the taxi to share expenses.

All the best to one and all.

flankerpilot

If I were you, I would first type in proper English before indulging in shameless advertising.