DGCA India English Proficiency

[jimmygill]

Here is the long awaited english proficiency requirement by DGCA http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D7G-G3.pdf

Some salient features are

3.2 All holders of licences specified in clause 6A of Schedule II of Aircraft Rules, 1937, shall from 1.10.2010 undergo an assessment to demonstrate an operational level of the ability to speak and understand English language used in radiotelephony and have the assessment level (Level 4 and above) endorsed on their licence before 5th March 2011.

For information 6A of Schedule II to Aircraft Rules 1937 included PPL, CPL, ATPL, Flight Engg, Flight Navigators. Curiously though it doesn't include Air Traffic Controllers. Possibly they will have to meet some other standards.

3.3From 1.10.2010, all applicants for the issue of licences specified in clause 6A of Schedule II of Aircraft Rules, 1937 shall undergo training and assessment to demonstrate an operational level of the ability to speak and understand English language used in radiotelephony and shall submit a certificate containing the level and validity of the language endorsement issued by a DGCA approved Examiner/ assessment team for endorsement on the licence.

Why make mandatory training, where assessment is enough? Such compulsion may lead to scenarios where the student is more qualified than the instructor.

No organization may impart training in English Language Proficiency without approval of DGCA. DGCA shall approve an airline or a flying training institute to conduct English language proficiency training.

I thought we just owe them taxes, but they seem have a different view. How about 15 years of english education at school?

The training programme shall be of a minimum 100 hours duration and shall include the following.
Pronunciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension, Interactions..

One gotta do all this even if one has got a PhD in English language. No exemptions in this document. Assessment is required after the course.

Language and communicational skills required in areas of:
..
..
Miscellaneous language of aeronautical communication such as managing an emergency with other cabin and fight deck crews; calming unruly or distressed passengers; handling hijackers, terrorists, etc.; and liaising with fire crews and emergency services

Communication is a two way thing, I wonder if there is any English proficiency requirement for unruly passengers or terrorists? Damn all this I just want a PPL, I will handle the unruly passenger before or after the flight in his or my mother tongue or Latin, or just literally handle.

5.9 Teaching Facilities
5.9.1 An ATO requesting for training the aviation personnel to meet the requirements in English language proficiency shall have facilities appropriate for the maximum number of trainees expected to be trained at any time. The optimum number of students recommended per class is twelve (12).

5.9.2 The minimum facilities recommended include:
(a) an enclosed soundproof classroom;
(b) white board and power point projector;
(c) relevant reference materials;
(d) recording, playback and hearing devices;
(e) IT connectivity for individual access to on line tuitions.

And here is where they got all the inspiration from:

NOTE: Refer to the ‘Manual on the Implementation of ICAO Language Proficiency Requirements’ (ICAO Doc 9835) for further guidance

[shanx]

1.WPC/RT rule regarding UK RTs obtained in India,
2. Then the computer no. and hours requirement for attempting DGCA exams rule,
3.then another WPC rule related to clearing Part 1 exam for getting Indian RTR(P) (if no CPL and RT from same commonwealth nation)
4. Morse Code and signal reception test certificate (WTF!!??)
5. ...........................
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'Desi' version of Murphy's Law (pertaining to DGCA/WPC) :

"If any rule or regulation would result in pilot community getting $odomized, then such a rule already exists or is bound to be introduced soon."

[silent_scream]

And here is where they got all the inspiration from:

Jimmy, The ICAO document is a Master copy that MUST be used by every one around the world. They can add to it , but not subtract from it.

Having said that, I recently came to know that the Canadian Pilots license language proficiency could be given on the phone sitting here in India. And considering the time difference, they accept Voice mails as well.
And to top it up, ICAO headquarters is in Montreal, not far away from Ottawa, Transport Canada Headquarters.

Shanx, Yes this is going to be quite some Cash Machine. All that rental space, instruments, institutions, 100 hours of training, faculties, Approvals etc. But lets not ascertain that our impeccable English skills are going to help us in the Assessment.

And to top it all, they do not specify for Pilots having converted their licenses having a English Proficiency on their foreign license.

But wait, did I forget the reassessment ? It needs further training. You can form the definition for that one.

Where my Primary School Grammar book ?
All the Best.

[jimmygill]

The ICAO document is a Master copy that MUST be used by every one around the world. They can add to it , but not subtract from it.

The ICAO document mentioned above is a manual. A manual which specifies what standards are. To determine how these standards are achieved and implemented is left to each of the contracting states.

[COCOCHANEL]

Are they planning to ground some Indian captains and FO's and permit airlines to get more pilots on FATA?

Jimmygill, I half giggled my way through the Indian RT part 1 exams. Initially I thought the examiner was speaking in an Indian language that I couldn't fathom. I bet he was unleashed by the WPC to fail native English speakers.

I think there will be an exemption clause eventually (UK RT etc.).

[Tinwacker]

English Passed

The training programme shall be of a minimum 100 hours duration and shall include the following.
Pronunciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension, Interactions..

Drat, now the staff will want me to produce a certificate for their ever growing CVs

TW

[silent_scream]

@ Jimmy, Agreed one has liberty to ascertain the way to achieve the Specified standards. But you have to agree that the ICAO Guidelines are met, and seldom exceeded by most countries.

FAA and Transport Canada both use ICAO Doc 9835, yet both have a Phone based test. Agreed English is second language here, but that does not call for the drastic steps that DGCA has taken towards implementation of the Test standards.

The wanting to make things difficult is more prevalent than water.

[captain-planet]

The training programme shall be of a minimum 100 hours duration and shall include the following.
Pronunciation, Structure, Vocabulary, Fluency, Comprehension, Interactions.

does this mean everyone who wants to be assessed needs to sit for these 100hrs??
If thats the case, then dis stuff is pretty f*&^%d up..

[silent_scream]

captain-planet, Yes it does seem to be compulsory as of now.

Of late DGCA has started coming out with DRAFT versions of CAR amendments requesting comments from the Industry. These are CAR's which affect the airline, flying schools, training establishment etc. But for this one, the did not find it necessary.

We all know the reason why.

[erikkathenordic]

so does this mean we have to give this xam in del dgca

[avalanche007]

@silent scream

@silent scream
bro dgca did came up with draft version of english test last year in sept
here is the link
http://dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20cars...-%20Draft).pdf
i really dont know why no one objected to taking classes or who suggested this

[captain-planet]

they've come up with this rule now.. dont think its gonna get implemented in the coming new months. looks like they are still looking for examiners nd stuff... and as for the deadline, we all know whats gonna happen to it (with the 100hrs of ground classes nd stuff)....

[jimmygill]

i really dont know why no one objected to taking classes or who suggested this

The draft didn't have anything about the 100 hrs classes in it.

The draft was much better than the actual CAR.

Is there any other contracting state that has a provision of 100 hrs mandatory english classes before issuing PPL license?

[jimmygill]

I half giggled my way through the Indian RT part 1 exams.

I failed in Part 1 RT exam, primarily due to very high rate of speech used by examiner who had a heavy Tamil accent, and who interpreted 'say again slowly' as 'say again in lower volume'.

Sometimes I practice reading at 80 words per minute, and I found that if one speaks at this recommended rate, In non-aviation world and in most cultures it will be considered a slow speech.

Since the examiner in these RT exams is not required to be a licensed aviation professional who himself needs to operate radio telephony, he/(she) I guess is exempt from having any standards.

[silent_scream]

Correct. The draft does not even have a single mention of the word "Mandatory".

I assume after the draft came out, the institutions contacted DGCA asking them to Mandate classes so that they could earn some moolah and so could DGCA.

But better than crying, is there any provision that we can challenge an already implemented CAR on basis of containing matter different (added) than the Draft ?

[jimmygill]

The mandatory training is not for airliner crew, its for new PPL or CPL applicants.

[optimus.Prime]

Bottom Line - As with everything else with the DGCA, one will have to pay through his/her nose to get an "English-Endorsement", on their License, which by itself resembles an antique Ration Card.

Secondly, it beats me as to how come, the other wise "slower than wind-erosion" DGCA does act astonishingly quickly when it comes to making a quick buck from us lot.

[tangowithtushar]

ration card haha lmao seriously when i show my blue prized possession to anyone he scoffs at me saying "is this what you guys spend a fortune on "

[jimmygill]

Secondly, it beats me as to how come, the other wise "slower than wind-erosion" DGCA does act astonishingly quickly when it comes to making a quick buck from us lot.

They are not quick, they are late by almost 2 years, this all ought have been done by March 2008.
Also ICAO requires english proficiency for international operations only.

well its for everyone who has cpl
so it mite[sic] be for airline crew also
hence they have come up with some provisions for airlines taking such exams

Read the CARs before you opine. It clearly says assessment for those who hold the PPL/CPL licenses.
And training followed by assessment for new PPL/CPL applicants.

[shanx]

Secondly, it beats me as to how come, the other wise "slower than wind-erosion" DGCA does act astonishingly quickly when it comes to making a quick buck from us lot.

How come such things are still surprising ?

What should be surprising, rather shocking is if we get to hear news or circulars from DGCA as follows :

1. "DGCA introduces computer based examination system for flight crew and AME licensing examinations."

2. "Forwarding of PMRs for medical examination of flight crew to be scrapped. DGCA to maintain central electronic database of medical stats of civil crew employed in India."

3. "DGCA appoints a panel of 20 doctors all over India with full authority and privileges to conduct and issue class 1 medical."

4. "Validity of ATPL examinations to be increased to 10 years and re-examination necessary only if pilot has not flown for the past 5 years commercially"

5. "DGCA introduces a new drive to reduce paper work and burden on pilots. Plans to implement online system of filing for flight crew licences and ratings on the same lines as that of FAA - IACRA"

6. "DGCA goes into self cleansing mode. To launch massive anti-corruption drive. All corrupt, dishonest staff to be sacked instantly on any complaint received along with proof."


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P.S The last one is unlikely to ever happen, cause if it does, then the whole DGCA campus would become empty, except for a few innocent peons and clerks !