Should i join it or not
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Should i join it or not
Hello everyone,
I gotta call from Cathy for stage 1 interview. But after reading all the threads here want me to quit. Why should i join CCP if eventually my SO salary would go in Housing rent. Plus it takes long time to become a FO without any guarantees. I am confuse, help me out here. If i join and complete this program, can i just runaway with all the licenses and work for some other airline like in the middle east. Help me out please.....
I gotta call from Cathy for stage 1 interview. But after reading all the threads here want me to quit. Why should i join CCP if eventually my SO salary would go in Housing rent. Plus it takes long time to become a FO without any guarantees. I am confuse, help me out here. If i join and complete this program, can i just runaway with all the licenses and work for some other airline like in the middle east. Help me out please.....
Join Date: Sep 2004
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To be honest, asking too much advice on this web site / forum is like asking the Arabs to comment on Israel. You won't really get a balanced point of view. If you look at the amount of negative posts, the same people repeat their concerns - many rightfully so, others because no matter what, they will always complain. And if you view the total number of pilots at CX the number making the most noise on this forum are quite miniscule. Again, that doesn't make their points of view any less valid.
CX are going through a recruitment logistical change. You have to decide what and where you fit in.
Have you applied for other cadetships? For example, what about Etihad?
What will you be doing IF you don't get offered or accept the CX cadetship?
Yes, the terms and conditions on offer are disgusting in my opinion BUT (!!!) having said that should you choose to accept them you will NEVER have any avenue to complain about the position YOU requested to have. Same goes with any job.
I think you need to go through the interview process. After all, you can't turn down a job that you have not been offered! And, the study you will need to do will be incredibly beneficial to your long term career as CX is reputed to have one of the toughest interview processes.
CX is considered as one of the best airlines in the world, by way of pilot training and repute. Now, whether these changes in T's & C's suit you is the question, by way of career and lifestyle.
How many pilots begin their career flying C172's/C210's for a few years, then a light twin, then a bigger light twin, (all the while working a second job as well!) then a turboprop only to have around 4-5000 hrs and ATPL before getting to be able to interview? Again, what will you do if you don't get or take the CX cadetship? Can you leave and after how long to go elsewhere? (That is, take the training and run!)
It's a bad, bad, bad contract! Think LONG (VERY LONG!!!!) term and what or where else you could be and doing what.
CX are going through a recruitment logistical change. You have to decide what and where you fit in.
Have you applied for other cadetships? For example, what about Etihad?
What will you be doing IF you don't get offered or accept the CX cadetship?
Yes, the terms and conditions on offer are disgusting in my opinion BUT (!!!) having said that should you choose to accept them you will NEVER have any avenue to complain about the position YOU requested to have. Same goes with any job.
I think you need to go through the interview process. After all, you can't turn down a job that you have not been offered! And, the study you will need to do will be incredibly beneficial to your long term career as CX is reputed to have one of the toughest interview processes.
CX is considered as one of the best airlines in the world, by way of pilot training and repute. Now, whether these changes in T's & C's suit you is the question, by way of career and lifestyle.
How many pilots begin their career flying C172's/C210's for a few years, then a light twin, then a bigger light twin, (all the while working a second job as well!) then a turboprop only to have around 4-5000 hrs and ATPL before getting to be able to interview? Again, what will you do if you don't get or take the CX cadetship? Can you leave and after how long to go elsewhere? (That is, take the training and run!)
It's a bad, bad, bad contract! Think LONG (VERY LONG!!!!) term and what or where else you could be and doing what.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Hey there,
I am posting this not to say "join" or "don't join" - but rather, to answer some of the questions you posted.
Firstly, as you have rightly pointed out, there is NO guarantee for a promotion to become a First Officer. In the past, the contract granted "Bypass pay" so that in a case where the company does not promote you when you are ready (due to over-staff or what not), they would have to start paying you an FO salary. As a matter of fact, a group of SOs just won a court case regarding this issue not long ago. However, there are indications that this "Bypass pay" clause will be removed from the contract (if it hasn't been removed already). In this case, not only is there a chance that you won't get promoted to FO when you are qualified and have enough hours, but on top of that, you will continue earning a SO salary only.
Can you just run away after all the training?? Well, if you are offered a place on the Cadet Pilot Programme, one of the legal documents you have to sign is a contract stating that you have to remain with the company for 6 years from the day you start as an SO. If you decide to leave before 6 years, or quit during the cadetship, you will be responsible for paying back all the costs including flight training, groundschool, food, accomodation, health insurance, VISAs...etc etc. which would add up to a lot of money. So think carefully before deciding as "running away" is not a good idea.
As Top Tup mentioned, Cathay Pacific is a very prestigious airline and considered to be the best in the world by many. This means that job prospects will be good should you look to join another airline. HOWEVER, there are not many airlines in the world that recognize the SECOND OFFICER position. Therefore, if you decide to try and apply for a job with another airline as an SO, you won't get far because a.)second officers are not recognized and b.)your ATPL is frozen.
Essentially, the decision must come from you in the end. I agree with Top Tup that it is difficult to get a balanced perspective from a forum as such...but it is important that you take as many factors into account as possible before coming to a decision.
All the best!
I am posting this not to say "join" or "don't join" - but rather, to answer some of the questions you posted.
Firstly, as you have rightly pointed out, there is NO guarantee for a promotion to become a First Officer. In the past, the contract granted "Bypass pay" so that in a case where the company does not promote you when you are ready (due to over-staff or what not), they would have to start paying you an FO salary. As a matter of fact, a group of SOs just won a court case regarding this issue not long ago. However, there are indications that this "Bypass pay" clause will be removed from the contract (if it hasn't been removed already). In this case, not only is there a chance that you won't get promoted to FO when you are qualified and have enough hours, but on top of that, you will continue earning a SO salary only.
Can you just run away after all the training?? Well, if you are offered a place on the Cadet Pilot Programme, one of the legal documents you have to sign is a contract stating that you have to remain with the company for 6 years from the day you start as an SO. If you decide to leave before 6 years, or quit during the cadetship, you will be responsible for paying back all the costs including flight training, groundschool, food, accomodation, health insurance, VISAs...etc etc. which would add up to a lot of money. So think carefully before deciding as "running away" is not a good idea.
As Top Tup mentioned, Cathay Pacific is a very prestigious airline and considered to be the best in the world by many. This means that job prospects will be good should you look to join another airline. HOWEVER, there are not many airlines in the world that recognize the SECOND OFFICER position. Therefore, if you decide to try and apply for a job with another airline as an SO, you won't get far because a.)second officers are not recognized and b.)your ATPL is frozen.
Essentially, the decision must come from you in the end. I agree with Top Tup that it is difficult to get a balanced perspective from a forum as such...but it is important that you take as many factors into account as possible before coming to a decision.
All the best!
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If i join and complete this program, can i just runaway with all the licenses and work for some other airline like in the middle east.
Plus it takes long time to become a FO without any guarantees.
Last edited by holdmetight; 11th Dec 2009 at 01:50.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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How about you pass all the stages, and as you wait for the employment offer, THEN you ask this "to join or not to..."? Unless of course, you know you are going to pass and get the offer.
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Hello everyone,
I gotta call from Cathy for stage 1 interview. But after reading all the threads here want me to quit. Why should i join CCP if eventually my SO salary would go in Housing rent. Plus it takes long time to become a FO without any guarantees. I am confuse, help me out here. If i join and complete this program, can i just runaway with all the licenses and work for some other airline like in the middle east. Help me out please.....
I gotta call from Cathy for stage 1 interview. But after reading all the threads here want me to quit. Why should i join CCP if eventually my SO salary would go in Housing rent. Plus it takes long time to become a FO without any guarantees. I am confuse, help me out here. If i join and complete this program, can i just runaway with all the licenses and work for some other airline like in the middle east. Help me out please.....
Do you think you will have a "guaranteed" post in those middle-east airlines?
Do you think there will be no bond between you and Cathay?
Are you sure the licences you will/can get in Cathay Cadet Programme, are adequate to get you a job elsewhere?
Are you sure you can "join" this program with juz a phone call for an "interview"?
Are you sure you can "complete" this program even if you can "join" this programme?
Are you 28 (Etihad thread) or 30 (info) years old???
Join Date: Aug 2008
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It is still very valid.
IMHO, people want to be a pilot for the money, job satisfaction (passion), prestige and/or etc. Military pilots probably joined because of job satisfaction and prestige more than the other and there are airline pilots wants to get into a wide body jet no matter what. e.g. Dragonair pays better than Cathay and so is the Emirates. But people still tend to want to join Cathay.
Temprory: Just get in first. The training the cadets receive probably is the best in the world. Qantas and BA used to training theirs cadets there when they still had cadets. My bottom line is where can you find an airline that will pay you to do a frozen ATPL and offer you a seat in a wide body straight away?
SO salary is plenty to live with. There are plenty of place that is convenient enough and cheap to rent. You just have to give up some of your western life style as they tend to expensive.
By the way, I haven't seen any American cadets yet. Still no harm trying. Good luck, buddy.
IMHO, people want to be a pilot for the money, job satisfaction (passion), prestige and/or etc. Military pilots probably joined because of job satisfaction and prestige more than the other and there are airline pilots wants to get into a wide body jet no matter what. e.g. Dragonair pays better than Cathay and so is the Emirates. But people still tend to want to join Cathay.
Temprory: Just get in first. The training the cadets receive probably is the best in the world. Qantas and BA used to training theirs cadets there when they still had cadets. My bottom line is where can you find an airline that will pay you to do a frozen ATPL and offer you a seat in a wide body straight away?
SO salary is plenty to live with. There are plenty of place that is convenient enough and cheap to rent. You just have to give up some of your western life style as they tend to expensive.
By the way, I haven't seen any American cadets yet. Still no harm trying. Good luck, buddy.
