Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Hi all, this is Danny. I will re-apply the programme this year too and it would be great if you could add me in your study group. We can prepare the exams together.
My email is [email protected]
My email is [email protected]
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Hi all, this is Danny. I will re-apply the programme this year too and it would be great if you could add me in your study group. We can prepare the exams together.
My email is [email protected]
My email is [email protected]
Cheers.
Join Date: Mar 2015
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YOU'VE ALL JUST BEEN GIVEN A PAY CUT
New joiners after the 1st of DECEMBER 2018 will be on the new COS18 payscale, you will get paid less or work more than the rest for the same amount, you will have to pay for 50% of your cadet course, it will be deducted from your salary over the first 3 years of employment.
You have been warned!
You have been warned!
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Join Date: Mar 2018
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Also i believe latest pilot jobs is the closest thing out there to the actual CUT-E test. If you've got a better program by all means, please share it here.
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Could anyone who has done stage 2 shed some light on the flight planning exercise?
I've read through quite a few forums and sources but none actually describes what exactly is included. thanks!
I've read through quite a few forums and sources but none actually describes what exactly is included. thanks!
Join Date: Jan 2013
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betpump - Can I ask you a question. Say for someone who grew up in a poor side of Hong Kong, never been to any fancy restaurants in Central because didn’t have the money to pay the bills, living in a public housing all his/her life, parents are relying on the government to get by, you tell me, where should they go? I agree with you. COS18 is pathetic. But, when you don’t have any another options, the only thing you could do is to suck it up and live through it. That’s Hong Kong.
Parent's relying on the government, public estate, no bills as no money to pay. That puts away your worry about rent etc. Average wages in Hong Kong are 16k/month. Work and save up enough to get your own flight training. You will be sitting in a SO seat for 6-7 years doing nothing anyways, and those P2 hours count as 0 elsewhere, yep NIL. A CPL should cost you about 400k-500k depends where you do it. Divide that by the 7 years of doing nothing as SO, and if you give that time into any other field your salary will go up heaps.. trust me I have been in worse shoes and always thought Hong Kong had no other options but I was so wrong. 8 years of saving and investing money you should have enough money for your flying training. If you think CX will train you for "free" you are wrong, you will have to accept a bond. How is that different from taking out a big loan?
Pay for your own training and build the hours, get a respectable flying job elsewhere or heck even start your own little gig or just do it as a hobby. It will be way more fun and you won't just be sitting doing nothing in a shiny jet eating at "fancy restaurants". Try getting X Plane or Microsoft Flight Sim and put it into autopilot, just sit and observe for 8 hours daily then turn off or close the program right before landing take-off. That will be your life as a "Pilot in CX without any other options".
If you are in it for just the pay or money you can earn way more putting those 7-8 years of your life elsewhere or in any other occupation cause at CX your title is a Pilot as SO but you nothing even remotely close to flying, except for the initial training. Oh and if you leave before your bond is over, have a hefty cheque ready not just for the company but also for the lawyers you will be needing to pay.
Goodluck!
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Doing your research on a pprune forum has no relation to managing problems in the cockpit... if you had to comb through 370+ pages why not just simply ask someone for the answer? saves yourself time and im sure many here are happy to help.
Also i believe latest pilot jobs is the closest thing out there to the actual CUT-E test. If you've got a better program by all means, please share it here.
Also i believe latest pilot jobs is the closest thing out there to the actual CUT-E test. If you've got a better program by all means, please share it here.
That site is the closest thing to the CUT-e but it doesn't make my statement untrue; it's unpolished. It's your money though.
Normally I wouldnt tell people what to do or not do but joining on the new COS will only bring misery. You will be quoted many figures about pay etc but at the end of the day Cathay will just manipulate your flying to pay you the least possible. C scale was just do able for some but D scale is just so inadequate that within your first few weeks in the company I can guarantee many new joiners will already be looking to leave. There are so many flaws in the wording of the new contract it isnt even a contract as anything in there can just be changed to suit managements needs.
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Hey Buddy!
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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For those looking to apply to Cathay, I just want to show you the new contract that was just released and you will be joining on. It's called COS18 and is full of many clauses. In my opinion it is a severe degradation to previous contracts as your time as an SO is no longer based on seniority, but how many hours you work in a year.
The pay has been reduced to a lower salary with higher hourly wages so that in order to get the pay they quote, you need to make sure you work all of those hours. Any agreements the union comes to on behalf of the pilot body will not benefit those on COS18 unless they are specifically mentioned in writing. The company can employee direct entry captains if they want, which will slow your upgrade time as well.
There is a final clause that states Cathay can amend the rules anytime they want. I will just post here the summary so you may see for yourselves. I am not trying to stop you, but rather let you know what you are getting into ahead of time.
These are just some of the comparisons. Keep in mind all ab initio will have to pay for their training, will not get HKPA for the first three years (unless you join Cathay Dragon as they no longer will have Second Officers) and the company will dock you 16,000HKD per month until your training is paid off. training plus HKPA loss is $30,000HKD/mo less money.....just so you know up front.
Good luck to you. I have attached the actual contract that you will be signing if you do choose to join. You can take a look and make your decision. Please keep in mind, there are other airlines with cadet programs, and for those with hours, strongly consider looking around before making your final decision. Wish you all the best.
“....some SO mates of mine sent me this. They did some digging and this is doing the rounds amongst the SO ranks...
* PXing is now J class only for CN, FO & SO and potential downgrade to PEY is acceptable. (No longer offering F class if available for CN and FO. Our current contract they must fly you back home in no lower than businesss class, whereas the new contract you may operate a long haul flight, and then fly back in economy as a passenger.
* Have to earn sick days. 2 per month in 1st year then 4 per month in 2nd year onwards. 120 Days max can be accrued. (COS08 allows up to 126 days)
* If you are medical unable to fly, the company have the right to assign you full-time ground duties.
* Reserve payment does not occur until after 30 days free reserve in rolling 12 months. They would have to roster and NOT call you in 5 x (6 day reserve blocks) every 12 months for you to even have a sniff at the Reserve day payment. Highly unlikely……
* Positioning allowance (0.25 x Excess Block Hour Rate) will only be paid if Actual Block Hours + Positioning Hours is above the minimum monthly block hours.
* The annual package and payment calculations the company are using in their tables all include P fund contributions and averaging 74 block hours a month (777). Making it look a lot better than it really is.
* Cadets in FTA now have to supply their own uniform (white shirt and navy pants) for the duration of their training.
* A note was made that ANY officer can become a Check and Trainer now.
* Also make note that any one on COS18 can be sent to a Cathay Group airline at any time for training or resource planning requirements. I.e. Air Hong Kong or Cathay Dragon.
* Promotion from within a rank (i.e. SO1 to SO2, FO1 to FO2) is based on Actual Block Hours not anniversary year of service. So work more if you want to be promoted to next pay scale.
* Different Block Hour Rate (after the minimum of 51 block hours a month for 777) for different fleets. 777 being the lowest, then Airbus and 747 getting the most per hour pay after the minimum monthly block hours.
* Target annual block hours 777 = 880 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 51.33)
* Target annual block hours Airbus = 840 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 49)
* Target annual block hours 747 = 725 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 42.29)
* No Overtime. Excess Block Hour Pay is only one figure and not a tiered system. So it will be the same per hour beginning from Minimum Monthly Hours (51hrs on 777) up to 100+ hrs per month is all paid at the same hourly rate (SO1 = $611 per hour)
* No longer a JFO pay or Rank.
* The company has the right to employ DEFO and DECN
* If you swap away duties and it results in you going below your minimum monthly block hours, your pay will be deducted accordingly.
* Annual productivity bonus is only paid if the above mentioned target block hours for each fleet is exceeded and then multiplied by 0.5 of the Block Hour Rate. So hypothetically if you are on 777 and maxed out at 900 hours. You would get 20 hrs extra calculated at your 0.5 Excess Block Hour Rate and that would be your annual bonus. e.g. SO1 (777) = 20 x $305= $6,100. CN1 (777) = 20 x $710 = $14,200.
* This Annual Productivity Bonus is not discretionary and MUST be paid at the end of every year.
* Although company can alter the Target Block Hours as they see fit without any consultation with HKAOA.
* Discretionary Year End Bonus (13th Month) is still available + the Annual Productivity Bonus.
* P fund reduced to 5%- 10% depending on joining rank. (if you are ab initio you get 5% if you are AE/TT you will get 10%. Currently we all get 15.5%)
* No mention of Bypass Pay in any Rank. - if someone upgrades before you, you get no compensation. Whereas now if they upgrade out of seniority, the person who was bypassed will be paid the next level. (FO on CAPT salary until he becomes a capt)
* Snapshot of COS18 left out the line (21.2. The Company will meet the cost of aircraft type endorsements.) under the training section. Could this mean type conversion will mean you are type frozen and bonded to the company for x amount of years to recuperate costs of conversion?
* Given that COS18 employees will effectively only get paid the same as COS08 employees, they will effectively become the ones to pickup the drip and drapes of the duties. COS08 employees will be rostered to fly their max 84 hours before they start rostering COS18 guys because if they don’t exceed there Minimum Monthly Block Hours then the company instantly saves money every month.
* Interesting to see how swaps will be managed also Will CC disapprove swaps now if you tried to swap a duty with a COS18 employee that would push them above their Minimum Monthly Block Hours and incur the company extra $$ whilst we still get paid effectively the same with less work due to our higher fixed based cost point?
The pay has been reduced to a lower salary with higher hourly wages so that in order to get the pay they quote, you need to make sure you work all of those hours. Any agreements the union comes to on behalf of the pilot body will not benefit those on COS18 unless they are specifically mentioned in writing. The company can employee direct entry captains if they want, which will slow your upgrade time as well.
There is a final clause that states Cathay can amend the rules anytime they want. I will just post here the summary so you may see for yourselves. I am not trying to stop you, but rather let you know what you are getting into ahead of time.
These are just some of the comparisons. Keep in mind all ab initio will have to pay for their training, will not get HKPA for the first three years (unless you join Cathay Dragon as they no longer will have Second Officers) and the company will dock you 16,000HKD per month until your training is paid off. training plus HKPA loss is $30,000HKD/mo less money.....just so you know up front.
Good luck to you. I have attached the actual contract that you will be signing if you do choose to join. You can take a look and make your decision. Please keep in mind, there are other airlines with cadet programs, and for those with hours, strongly consider looking around before making your final decision. Wish you all the best.
“....some SO mates of mine sent me this. They did some digging and this is doing the rounds amongst the SO ranks...
* PXing is now J class only for CN, FO & SO and potential downgrade to PEY is acceptable. (No longer offering F class if available for CN and FO. Our current contract they must fly you back home in no lower than businesss class, whereas the new contract you may operate a long haul flight, and then fly back in economy as a passenger.
* Have to earn sick days. 2 per month in 1st year then 4 per month in 2nd year onwards. 120 Days max can be accrued. (COS08 allows up to 126 days)
* If you are medical unable to fly, the company have the right to assign you full-time ground duties.
* Reserve payment does not occur until after 30 days free reserve in rolling 12 months. They would have to roster and NOT call you in 5 x (6 day reserve blocks) every 12 months for you to even have a sniff at the Reserve day payment. Highly unlikely……
* Positioning allowance (0.25 x Excess Block Hour Rate) will only be paid if Actual Block Hours + Positioning Hours is above the minimum monthly block hours.
* The annual package and payment calculations the company are using in their tables all include P fund contributions and averaging 74 block hours a month (777). Making it look a lot better than it really is.
* Cadets in FTA now have to supply their own uniform (white shirt and navy pants) for the duration of their training.
* A note was made that ANY officer can become a Check and Trainer now.
* Also make note that any one on COS18 can be sent to a Cathay Group airline at any time for training or resource planning requirements. I.e. Air Hong Kong or Cathay Dragon.
* Promotion from within a rank (i.e. SO1 to SO2, FO1 to FO2) is based on Actual Block Hours not anniversary year of service. So work more if you want to be promoted to next pay scale.
* Different Block Hour Rate (after the minimum of 51 block hours a month for 777) for different fleets. 777 being the lowest, then Airbus and 747 getting the most per hour pay after the minimum monthly block hours.
* Target annual block hours 777 = 880 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 51.33)
* Target annual block hours Airbus = 840 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 49)
* Target annual block hours 747 = 725 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 42.29)
* No Overtime. Excess Block Hour Pay is only one figure and not a tiered system. So it will be the same per hour beginning from Minimum Monthly Hours (51hrs on 777) up to 100+ hrs per month is all paid at the same hourly rate (SO1 = $611 per hour)
* No longer a JFO pay or Rank.
* The company has the right to employ DEFO and DECN
* If you swap away duties and it results in you going below your minimum monthly block hours, your pay will be deducted accordingly.
* Annual productivity bonus is only paid if the above mentioned target block hours for each fleet is exceeded and then multiplied by 0.5 of the Block Hour Rate. So hypothetically if you are on 777 and maxed out at 900 hours. You would get 20 hrs extra calculated at your 0.5 Excess Block Hour Rate and that would be your annual bonus. e.g. SO1 (777) = 20 x $305= $6,100. CN1 (777) = 20 x $710 = $14,200.
* This Annual Productivity Bonus is not discretionary and MUST be paid at the end of every year.
* Although company can alter the Target Block Hours as they see fit without any consultation with HKAOA.
* Discretionary Year End Bonus (13th Month) is still available + the Annual Productivity Bonus.
* P fund reduced to 5%- 10% depending on joining rank. (if you are ab initio you get 5% if you are AE/TT you will get 10%. Currently we all get 15.5%)
* No mention of Bypass Pay in any Rank. - if someone upgrades before you, you get no compensation. Whereas now if they upgrade out of seniority, the person who was bypassed will be paid the next level. (FO on CAPT salary until he becomes a capt)
* Snapshot of COS18 left out the line (21.2. The Company will meet the cost of aircraft type endorsements.) under the training section. Could this mean type conversion will mean you are type frozen and bonded to the company for x amount of years to recuperate costs of conversion?
* Given that COS18 employees will effectively only get paid the same as COS08 employees, they will effectively become the ones to pickup the drip and drapes of the duties. COS08 employees will be rostered to fly their max 84 hours before they start rostering COS18 guys because if they don’t exceed there Minimum Monthly Block Hours then the company instantly saves money every month.
* Interesting to see how swaps will be managed also Will CC disapprove swaps now if you tried to swap a duty with a COS18 employee that would push them above their Minimum Monthly Block Hours and incur the company extra $$ whilst we still get paid effectively the same with less work due to our higher fixed based cost point?
Join Date: Oct 2018
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COS18 actual contract
Here are the actual contracts you will join under. If it is for you, then so be it, but I just want you to have a full look. Full transparency, so you are not blind sighted when you do join. I do urge you to look at a few companies not just cathay, but in the end, if cathay is where you want to be, then I can not argue. Good luck to you all
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Becoming an SO at cx is also becoming less attractive, and if the airline has trouble hiring SOs, then it is also hard to say when that upgrade comes.
Last edited by MrAndy; 8th Oct 2018 at 01:33. Reason: spelling