Future for DEFOs ???
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Future for DEFOs ???
With all that has transpired recently, RA65, COS08, seniority alignment, is the DEFO program extinct?
Will we all be offered SO positions when training resumes?
What's next?
sooo close...
Will we all be offered SO positions when training resumes?
What's next?
sooo close...
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When hiring resumes....
I don't think that they will get rid of the DEFO program. The experience level of SO's seems to vary widely. Cadets to fighter pilots have joined as SO's. When I went through, one person had 2000 of single engine time - very smart guy, and he did great in training. But in the past they recruited pilots with heavy time to jump into the right seat. I can't see them changing course that dramatically. There are still a lot of aircraft on order that need seats filled. Hang on until then.
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Cathay just wants factors of production, at the most efficient price. If you say that you will take an SO position, no matter how qualified you are; that is what you will be offered! If that is all they recruit in the future, it is not a bad thing. That would mean CX turned into an airline based on seniority; which should actually encourage you about your career at CX.
Think about what you would take, an SO course now, or a DEFO course in 2 years? If you wait, then any SO that joined in that 2 years is going to be a Captain before you are, and you might wish you could have gotten over any ego you may have about having 3 stripes, instead of one, for doing the same job.
Good luck!
Think about what you would take, an SO course now, or a DEFO course in 2 years? If you wait, then any SO that joined in that 2 years is going to be a Captain before you are, and you might wish you could have gotten over any ego you may have about having 3 stripes, instead of one, for doing the same job.
Good luck!
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CX just opened the cadet program to applicants worldwide, no HKG ID required anymore, and is actively interviewing and recruiting for it with the next course in September 2009. Apparently different courses available based on previous and no experience. Word on the street is that no DESO or DEFO hiring is planned for the immediate future.
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True, but no "expat" cadet is going to hang around until command for housing, he/she will be off back home as soon as they have 500hrs as JF/O on the A330 or 777. Unlike the majority of CX cadets HK is not their home and some will have never been here.
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Looks like the NA poolies will get flushed down the drain if this is the case. Oh well, what's several months of study and a few hundred quid? Answer- a tax deduction.
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"Looks like the NA poolies will get flushed down the drain if this is the case."
Well I really hope that is not the case but who knows what’s in store! From a bottom line perspective yes it may be cheaper to do away with all DFO and SO hiring however why not just revise the COS again and offer DESO and FOS the same package that the new cadets would be on? That way CX still gets qualified applicants and they cut their expenses. It can't be cheap to pay for all the flight training for all of your pilots from 0 to ATPL?
Well I really hope that is not the case but who knows what’s in store! From a bottom line perspective yes it may be cheaper to do away with all DFO and SO hiring however why not just revise the COS again and offer DESO and FOS the same package that the new cadets would be on? That way CX still gets qualified applicants and they cut their expenses. It can't be cheap to pay for all the flight training for all of your pilots from 0 to ATPL?
Last edited by wrking30; 11th Jun 2009 at 18:01. Reason: Phrase
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"We have been fighting for years to better our COS. It's guys like you that are dragging this profession down at an ever increasing rate.
Why not revise the COS again and have everyone pay to work here! Jeezus!"
I think that you are missing the point I was trying to make. The rumor is that CX will favor Cadets over DFO or DSO right? As it enables them to have all new Pilot recruits on local terms. Well I was merely pointing out if CX were so concerned about having pilots on expat terms they would simply hire DFOs and DSOs on new COS that no longer provided those expat terms.
Should they go the route of having only cadets, it wont be because they want to only have people on Local T&Cs it will be because they don't need any direct entry pilots at this point in time.
Why not revise the COS again and have everyone pay to work here! Jeezus!"
I think that you are missing the point I was trying to make. The rumor is that CX will favor Cadets over DFO or DSO right? As it enables them to have all new Pilot recruits on local terms. Well I was merely pointing out if CX were so concerned about having pilots on expat terms they would simply hire DFOs and DSOs on new COS that no longer provided those expat terms.
Should they go the route of having only cadets, it wont be because they want to only have people on Local T&Cs it will be because they don't need any direct entry pilots at this point in time.
Last edited by wrking30; 12th Jun 2009 at 15:34. Reason: Clarification
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Well I have 600 hours on single engines. To fly for Cathay is my dream. I am a Flight Instructor and i have applied for the cadet pilot program. I am preparing for the tests. Do you think they want people with a little experience for cadet pilots or they want pilot with zero flying time? I have an ICAO CPL/IR and CFI.I am Pakistani but i live in Jordon. I am waiting anxiously
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Over the past 12 months I have met a few pilots waiting for SO slots. 2 of these guys have over 1000 hrs jet time (B777, A330, or MD time I think...) PLUS over 5000 hours of experience with thousands of command experience on lighter turbo props. They passed the 2nd stage SO interview over a year ago.
So, hurry up and wait it seems. CX may find themselves short of guys on that illustrious hold file "if" such pilots get tired of waiting and take a DEFO job with another carrier instead of SO with CX. But to be honest, I can't see that happening. Sign of the times.
So, hurry up and wait it seems. CX may find themselves short of guys on that illustrious hold file "if" such pilots get tired of waiting and take a DEFO job with another carrier instead of SO with CX. But to be honest, I can't see that happening. Sign of the times.
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air., your question isn't relevant to this thread which is about the future of DEFO not the 'hours requirement for cadets' - didnt you read the title, stay on topic.
How many SOs do Cathay require per year? At the moment: 0
How many SOs do Cathay require per year? At the moment: 0
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Yes, and if we began offering HKG base DEFO with no expat allowances, I would hazard a guess that about 0 people would show up. You CANNOT afford to live in HKG without these allowances, unless you are from here originally. In addition, if you were willing to work here for those conditions, then we all would rather not have you. No offense.
box
box
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I for one will not show up. As much as I like to work for CX I still need to feed and put a roof over my family. I also think CX knows that if they take that route only low time guys with 400 or 500 hours will show up to build some time. CX pride it self with regard to it's pilots it would be a shame. Its also not fair to FO and Capt who have to work with these low time guys.
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boxjockey,
What you should be thinking is we better not let the company offer such crap, because if they do someone will take it, I mean look at the history of CX, every crap deal that comes out gets filled by someone
CX will always drag the COS towards the lowest end so if we allow CX to set low conditions don't be surprised when you get there.
I don't think many A scalers thought they'd one day be on B scale with no housing, it was there and people took it!
[The 24kt is not housing it's a special allowance for level D staff]
I spoke to a F/O the other day who has come to HK early ie NO Housing! So there it is and CX are going to aim for it.
Next CX will say sorry no position available to him like we promised and see how he reacts if he stays well CX wins again.
If he wasn't allowed to come to HK early he'd come when housing was available.
flynhigh if you had been furloughed for 6 months with what CX offered as the only option would you take it? I don't mind if you do or don't just if you're in it deep with a family etc That is the crap CX would play on.
What you should be thinking is we better not let the company offer such crap, because if they do someone will take it, I mean look at the history of CX, every crap deal that comes out gets filled by someone
CX will always drag the COS towards the lowest end so if we allow CX to set low conditions don't be surprised when you get there.
I don't think many A scalers thought they'd one day be on B scale with no housing, it was there and people took it!
[The 24kt is not housing it's a special allowance for level D staff]
I spoke to a F/O the other day who has come to HK early ie NO Housing! So there it is and CX are going to aim for it.
Next CX will say sorry no position available to him like we promised and see how he reacts if he stays well CX wins again.
If he wasn't allowed to come to HK early he'd come when housing was available.
flynhigh if you had been furloughed for 6 months with what CX offered as the only option would you take it? I don't mind if you do or don't just if you're in it deep with a family etc That is the crap CX would play on.
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Let's face it CX doesn't need any pilots at the moment. We are minimum 400 pilots heavy considering all schedule reductions, 747 classic retirements and parked aircraft, plus RA 65. Cadets are stil hired as the cadet program is already in place at a relative low cost, plus the advantage of training pilots who have never been exposed to another airline. Makes it easier to train a cadet in terms of CX SOP and corporate acceptance.
Apparently cargo bottomed out, but pax still decline. Let's assume the industry recovers by the end of 2010 and we start expanding at a 6% rate. That means we will need to start courses again by the summer of 2013 for new hires.
Considering the present policy is to re-interview if longer than 2 years in the pool, candidates waiting in the pool should be prepared to interview again if this policy doesn't change.
Apparently cargo bottomed out, but pax still decline. Let's assume the industry recovers by the end of 2010 and we start expanding at a 6% rate. That means we will need to start courses again by the summer of 2013 for new hires.
Considering the present policy is to re-interview if longer than 2 years in the pool, candidates waiting in the pool should be prepared to interview again if this policy doesn't change.
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Well it has changed, was informed that as recruitment was held due to company reasons, (as opposed to the request of the applicant) the 2 year expiry is no longer valid, the offer is indefinate. I guess youve got to realistic though, if it takes 5 years they must want to see you again in person.
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flynhigh if you had been furloughed for 6 months with what CX offered as the only option would you take it? I don't mind if you do or don't just if you're in it deep with a family etc That is the crap CX would play on.
Great point. I see what your trying to say. But Hong Kong is not U.S where I can rent a 1 bed room apt for $650.00 a month, my understanding is 1 bedroom apt is Hong Kong is about $2000 to $3000 a month and with a income of $4500 a month for SO, how could someone make a living unless your single and get a crash pad. But at the end of the day your correct as people would line up to interview for those slots at CX.
Great point. I see what your trying to say. But Hong Kong is not U.S where I can rent a 1 bed room apt for $650.00 a month, my understanding is 1 bedroom apt is Hong Kong is about $2000 to $3000 a month and with a income of $4500 a month for SO, how could someone make a living unless your single and get a crash pad. But at the end of the day your correct as people would line up to interview for those slots at CX.