CX Interview Coming - Is it worth going?
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CX Interview Coming - Is it worth going?
Hi
Good news, I have been offered a final interview with Cathay in London in January.
Bad news, so far I have heard nothing good at all about the company. From what I have read here it seems that I will have to effectively resit my ATPLs and IR in order to be demoted and take a Ģ20k pay cut to then work a 10(to12) on 4 off roster pattern. And that is IF I make it through the training.
Am I being slightly thick or is this a fairly poor deal?
Specifically, can anyone comment on the following:
a. What is the training culture like once you have been accepted - is there a high 'chop' rate?
b. What is the cockpit climate like? 'Girls and cars', or 'Met Theory according to the left seat'.
c. I get the impression that CX is a very 'traditional' (i.e. crap CRM) airline. Is this unfair?
d. Finally can anyone give me a good reason to give up my jet command with a short haul european company to move to CX?
Thanks guys 'n gals,
KT
Good news, I have been offered a final interview with Cathay in London in January.
Bad news, so far I have heard nothing good at all about the company. From what I have read here it seems that I will have to effectively resit my ATPLs and IR in order to be demoted and take a Ģ20k pay cut to then work a 10(to12) on 4 off roster pattern. And that is IF I make it through the training.
Am I being slightly thick or is this a fairly poor deal?
Specifically, can anyone comment on the following:
a. What is the training culture like once you have been accepted - is there a high 'chop' rate?
b. What is the cockpit climate like? 'Girls and cars', or 'Met Theory according to the left seat'.
c. I get the impression that CX is a very 'traditional' (i.e. crap CRM) airline. Is this unfair?
d. Finally can anyone give me a good reason to give up my jet command with a short haul european company to move to CX?
Thanks guys 'n gals,
KT
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Are you joining on an UK base?
If so, you'll end up paying UK taxes anyway and wont get a housing allowance.
Topped with a squillion years to pax command you might get a tad frustrated.
Good luck with your decision.
MAX
If so, you'll end up paying UK taxes anyway and wont get a housing allowance.
Topped with a squillion years to pax command you might get a tad frustrated.
Good luck with your decision.
MAX
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Good post Knee Trembler!
I'm in similar situation (but im FO going to SO) and having a tough time deciding if it's worth going...
Spoken to current guys there (FO and SO) and it seems CX "glory" days are far behind them... Word is it all started going down before the whole "49ers"...No pay rise, company morale low etc
Going from an FO to SO for 3 years doesnt really float my boat. Plus that salary doesnt really get you a good enough place for the first few years...
b. What is the cockpit climate like? 'Girls and cars', or 'Met Theory according to the left seat'.
I think you will find its it's the latter...
I'm in similar situation (but im FO going to SO) and having a tough time deciding if it's worth going...
Spoken to current guys there (FO and SO) and it seems CX "glory" days are far behind them... Word is it all started going down before the whole "49ers"...No pay rise, company morale low etc
Going from an FO to SO for 3 years doesnt really float my boat. Plus that salary doesnt really get you a good enough place for the first few years...
b. What is the cockpit climate like? 'Girls and cars', or 'Met Theory according to the left seat'.
I think you will find its it's the latter...
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At least take the trip to HKG and find out for yourself. If you want answers from an anonymous web message board then have at it. I don't make serious life and career decisions based on this stuff and I would suggest you don't either. What at your current company makes you want to leave? Is that reason for leaving worse than the worst story you have heard about CX? Is the story true that you heard about CX?
One way or the other I think you would be a fool to make a decision based on this website. At the very least go to HKG, talk to real people and get their perspective. At the end of the day make the decision that is best for you and your family.
Good luck.
One way or the other I think you would be a fool to make a decision based on this website. At the very least go to HKG, talk to real people and get their perspective. At the end of the day make the decision that is best for you and your family.
Good luck.
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a.
"Training Culture?" more checking culture. Actually it got a LOT better. I must say I havenīt seen ANY unfair or unfriendly checker/trainer. I really donīt know why some people are so afraid of the training department?
BUT, the quality of training is not the best.
b.
really depending with whom you fly.
50% of the Australiens are very nervous and stressed out. They make a big deal out of something small and very unimportand - so flying can get very unrelaxed.
Almost all Canadians and US americans are very nice to fly with.
and than the Brits. Well most of them are quite relaxed and fun to fly with. Only very very few bad apples.
So I guess like in every other airline you have good ones and bad ones.
But after all itīs a Captain airline, where the Captain is just a little higher/better like in any other airline.
c.
Oh, yes CX is traditionally. Here we are back in the good old colonial days. Especially at the management style this attitude can be seen very good.
Bad CRM? Whatīs CRM? Like I said before, the Captain is just a bit better than in any other airline in this world.
d.
Money, Itīs all about the Money.
I came here because it was a career move and I wanted to live somewhere else. But I was never expecting a live-long career with CX.
I was planning on about 6 to 7 years - Iīm almost done, then I will move on.
I also was sick of flying turboprops for 100 hours a month for 7 years.
I didnīt joined because of the salry, It took me over 3 years to match the salary I had before.
Like I said for me it was just a career move and to see something else.
After the first years in hk I started to get greedy about the money, I bought an apartment, cx paid for it the price of the apartment almost doubled, so go figure, I will be done with "flying" for CX very soon.
And the money at CX IS good - when you are in hk.
I consider the housing allowance as my salary: 55000 - 65000 hkd a month!!! If you invest clever you can stop working after a couple of years assumed you donīt like to buy new Porsches every year.
Iīm a very minimalistic kind of person, so I will have enough money to stop flying for CX.
I still LOVE flying, so I will be happy to start it again once I left CX. Nothing more need to say about that.
If you come here, have a plan. Only join when you want and can live in Hong Kong. Joining on a base - not worth it: bad money, crap roster, boring "flying".
If you come to HK there are some point to be considered:
Are you married? Will the Wife like it here?
Do you have kids? Now it getīs really complicated. School, Housing,...
If you have kids, or planning to have one soon, DONīT COME!!!
If you are a single, consider joining and have some fun. Buy an apartment, take the money and leave again.
"Training Culture?" more checking culture. Actually it got a LOT better. I must say I havenīt seen ANY unfair or unfriendly checker/trainer. I really donīt know why some people are so afraid of the training department?
BUT, the quality of training is not the best.
b.
really depending with whom you fly.
50% of the Australiens are very nervous and stressed out. They make a big deal out of something small and very unimportand - so flying can get very unrelaxed.
Almost all Canadians and US americans are very nice to fly with.
and than the Brits. Well most of them are quite relaxed and fun to fly with. Only very very few bad apples.
So I guess like in every other airline you have good ones and bad ones.
But after all itīs a Captain airline, where the Captain is just a little higher/better like in any other airline.
c.
Oh, yes CX is traditionally. Here we are back in the good old colonial days. Especially at the management style this attitude can be seen very good.
Bad CRM? Whatīs CRM? Like I said before, the Captain is just a bit better than in any other airline in this world.
d.
Money, Itīs all about the Money.
I came here because it was a career move and I wanted to live somewhere else. But I was never expecting a live-long career with CX.
I was planning on about 6 to 7 years - Iīm almost done, then I will move on.
I also was sick of flying turboprops for 100 hours a month for 7 years.
I didnīt joined because of the salry, It took me over 3 years to match the salary I had before.
Like I said for me it was just a career move and to see something else.
After the first years in hk I started to get greedy about the money, I bought an apartment, cx paid for it the price of the apartment almost doubled, so go figure, I will be done with "flying" for CX very soon.
And the money at CX IS good - when you are in hk.
I consider the housing allowance as my salary: 55000 - 65000 hkd a month!!! If you invest clever you can stop working after a couple of years assumed you donīt like to buy new Porsches every year.
Iīm a very minimalistic kind of person, so I will have enough money to stop flying for CX.
I still LOVE flying, so I will be happy to start it again once I left CX. Nothing more need to say about that.
If you come here, have a plan. Only join when you want and can live in Hong Kong. Joining on a base - not worth it: bad money, crap roster, boring "flying".
If you come to HK there are some point to be considered:
Are you married? Will the Wife like it here?
Do you have kids? Now it getīs really complicated. School, Housing,...
If you have kids, or planning to have one soon, DONīT COME!!!
If you are a single, consider joining and have some fun. Buy an apartment, take the money and leave again.
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Rjmore I fly to HK often with my current employer. I have no problems with HK or Cathay personally.
I just thought Knee Trembler put up a post that was very valid considering from ACTUAL people I have spoken to workng at CX all have said (ALL not 1 or 2) that Cathay's golden days are far behind...
I'm sure you agree that going from FO glass widebody now to 3+ as a second officer is a step one must think carefully about. Hence the orginal post from Knee Trembler. Throw away captain in europe for CX?
Pprune is just a rumour network. I know that! Since day one I only wanted cathay yet now that it's here i'm not so sure... Reading the posts of guys leaving CX it just seems it's not what it once was...
I just thought Knee Trembler put up a post that was very valid considering from ACTUAL people I have spoken to workng at CX all have said (ALL not 1 or 2) that Cathay's golden days are far behind...
I'm sure you agree that going from FO glass widebody now to 3+ as a second officer is a step one must think carefully about. Hence the orginal post from Knee Trembler. Throw away captain in europe for CX?
Pprune is just a rumour network. I know that! Since day one I only wanted cathay yet now that it's here i'm not so sure... Reading the posts of guys leaving CX it just seems it's not what it once was...
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Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble to reply.
Rjmore, thanks for the wise words. I fully agree that one should make one's own mind up at the end of the day. Interestingly though, when I posted a similar question regarding BA, I received an overwhelmingly positive series of replies. The replies I've had so far seem luke warm to say the least and no one has suggested that I will positively enjoy working at CX.
Sadly BA didn't work out for me, after working hard to get through the first stage I had a bad day in the sim and that was that. A lot of hard work, over six months, for nothing. From what I have read, CX requires much more in the way of preparation than BA.
Making a serious decision from other peoples opinions is never easy (or indeed advisable) but in this case, I find it interesting to read what is NOT being said rather than what is.
I started flying in the early 90s and Cathay was THE airline to work for then. I find it very sad that it seems to have developed the reputation of being the long haul Ryanair.
The times, indeed, are a changing!
KT
Rjmore, thanks for the wise words. I fully agree that one should make one's own mind up at the end of the day. Interestingly though, when I posted a similar question regarding BA, I received an overwhelmingly positive series of replies. The replies I've had so far seem luke warm to say the least and no one has suggested that I will positively enjoy working at CX.
Sadly BA didn't work out for me, after working hard to get through the first stage I had a bad day in the sim and that was that. A lot of hard work, over six months, for nothing. From what I have read, CX requires much more in the way of preparation than BA.
Making a serious decision from other peoples opinions is never easy (or indeed advisable) but in this case, I find it interesting to read what is NOT being said rather than what is.
I started flying in the early 90s and Cathay was THE airline to work for then. I find it very sad that it seems to have developed the reputation of being the long haul Ryanair.
The times, indeed, are a changing!
KT
Last edited by Knee Trembler; 17th Nov 2007 at 18:46.
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Knee Trembler,
One thing I will say about this site is that probably 99.9% of the people at CX DO NOT post here. It seems this has become a place for the disgruntled to hang out. Take a look at the numbers of people posting regarding CX, then realize several of them are probably the same people with different ID's. So take a peek in person and find out for yourself.
One thing I will say about this site is that probably 99.9% of the people at CX DO NOT post here. It seems this has become a place for the disgruntled to hang out. Take a look at the numbers of people posting regarding CX, then realize several of them are probably the same people with different ID's. So take a peek in person and find out for yourself.
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Pollution
It may be that a minority of people post on this forum. But whether the views expressed are any the less valid as a result, is debatable. Here is a perspective on the pollution you can expect to encounter if you take a position in the 'Fragrant Harbour'.
People don't generally move to Hong Kong for the fresh air - there are usually career drivers behind the move here, but the question really has to be 'How much is living in this polluted environment really worth in dollar terms?', or put another way 'Is the boost in my career by taking a job here worth exposing myself to the environment in Hong Kong?'.
It is a hard question to answer, particularly if you are inflicting the polluted environment here in Hong Kong on your family as well.
Here is a Letter to the Editor that appeared in the SCMP on Thursday November 2007 that gives one perspective that you may wish to consider. It is entitled:
'Living in heavily polluted HK has been bitter-sweet experience'
I am an Australian who has been living here for only 12 months and while I have enjoyed my time, I can hardly say Hong Kong has been a model city to be envied by the rest of the world.
For the first time in my 30 years on this planet I have worried every day about what my living conditions are doing to my body - and what the long-term effects will be, even after I return to a clean environment.
You can't drink the tap water, or eat fish caught locally, although you probably do this unwittingly. You can't dine out with confidence until you've had your hepatitis shots and you can't avoid MSG.
How can anyone relax at a local restaurant knowing that the vegetables have been grown in mainland soil, soaking up chemicals and heavy metals from one of its abused waterways, 90 per cent of which are polluted?
I now know when I come home from a walk outside, I am not getting sick, my throat simply hurts from the pollution. My newly acquired persistent cough is a symptom of being poisoned by industrial diesel fumes and the fact that I am getting pimples for the first time in my life in my thirties is a testament to the disgusting environmental conditions.
I have to apologise to my overseas visitors for the smells emanating from the sewers, for the blasts of diesel fumes on the Star Ferry, for the pointless trip to The Peak to see the smog, for the dead and bloated fish on the rubbish tip-style waterfronts of the 'beautiful' outlying islands and for avoiding most of the city's local eateries unless my guests have been vaccinated.
Before I arrived in Hong Kong, I was planning on starting a family. Now I'm so worried about what only 12 months in Hong Kong has done to my health I have booked a raft of tests for when I get home, including those for detecting high levels of mercury and other heavy metals. This would never have been a concern back home. Living in Hong Kong has been a bitter-sweet experience.
The inescapable inference from this letter is that one would have to think hard before leaving a place where you are forced to breathe clean air and live in a large house, and swap it for this polluted environment in Hong Kong in order to make a little more money, or further your career.
This is particularly so in our seniority-driven occupation where it is not always so easy to move sideways into a comparable position in another airline. Almost invariably a demotion is required in order to move between airlines. You could find yourself, having invested some time here, trapped in an environment you and your family are unhappy with, but unable to move away without taking a considerable hit in terms of career progression.
What price clean air, fresh food, and healthy lifestyle?
People don't generally move to Hong Kong for the fresh air - there are usually career drivers behind the move here, but the question really has to be 'How much is living in this polluted environment really worth in dollar terms?', or put another way 'Is the boost in my career by taking a job here worth exposing myself to the environment in Hong Kong?'.
It is a hard question to answer, particularly if you are inflicting the polluted environment here in Hong Kong on your family as well.
Here is a Letter to the Editor that appeared in the SCMP on Thursday November 2007 that gives one perspective that you may wish to consider. It is entitled:
'Living in heavily polluted HK has been bitter-sweet experience'
I am an Australian who has been living here for only 12 months and while I have enjoyed my time, I can hardly say Hong Kong has been a model city to be envied by the rest of the world.
For the first time in my 30 years on this planet I have worried every day about what my living conditions are doing to my body - and what the long-term effects will be, even after I return to a clean environment.
You can't drink the tap water, or eat fish caught locally, although you probably do this unwittingly. You can't dine out with confidence until you've had your hepatitis shots and you can't avoid MSG.
How can anyone relax at a local restaurant knowing that the vegetables have been grown in mainland soil, soaking up chemicals and heavy metals from one of its abused waterways, 90 per cent of which are polluted?
I now know when I come home from a walk outside, I am not getting sick, my throat simply hurts from the pollution. My newly acquired persistent cough is a symptom of being poisoned by industrial diesel fumes and the fact that I am getting pimples for the first time in my life in my thirties is a testament to the disgusting environmental conditions.
I have to apologise to my overseas visitors for the smells emanating from the sewers, for the blasts of diesel fumes on the Star Ferry, for the pointless trip to The Peak to see the smog, for the dead and bloated fish on the rubbish tip-style waterfronts of the 'beautiful' outlying islands and for avoiding most of the city's local eateries unless my guests have been vaccinated.
Before I arrived in Hong Kong, I was planning on starting a family. Now I'm so worried about what only 12 months in Hong Kong has done to my health I have booked a raft of tests for when I get home, including those for detecting high levels of mercury and other heavy metals. This would never have been a concern back home. Living in Hong Kong has been a bitter-sweet experience.
The inescapable inference from this letter is that one would have to think hard before leaving a place where you are forced to breathe clean air and live in a large house, and swap it for this polluted environment in Hong Kong in order to make a little more money, or further your career.
This is particularly so in our seniority-driven occupation where it is not always so easy to move sideways into a comparable position in another airline. Almost invariably a demotion is required in order to move between airlines. You could find yourself, having invested some time here, trapped in an environment you and your family are unhappy with, but unable to move away without taking a considerable hit in terms of career progression.
What price clean air, fresh food, and healthy lifestyle?
