Complete rubbish.

They were waiting in the VIP lounge, with catering and psychological
assistance. They were waiting for their belongings, hand luggage,
also some of them had their passports in the hand luggage.

Also they were asked some questions by the investigation commission.

Yes, it was long, but in most cases, the psychologists insisted on
checking carefully on all of them, for post traumatic shock.

I am pretty sure that congratulations to flightdeck and cabin for nice belly-landing and good evacuation are in order :D. Aeroplane is in one piece so there won't be long before preliminary tech details leak out. I'd guestimate it will be a day or two at least and week at most so some small amount of patience will be required.


Well, in the most of them. Not in Korean.

It happens on about every flight but usually not on landing.

Perhaps due to the hydraulic problems that have been mentioned.

B767 Alt Gear deploy
 

This is a very curious incident,
AFAIK Alt. deploy just releases the uplocks (Elect) and allows gravity to allow the gear to deploy, and I believe the Airbus uses a similar type of system.
So even with NO Hydraulics, gear should still deploy. The use of Flaps and spoilers shown in the pictures would indicate that not All Hyd. went out, nor explain why uplocks would not release ...

Kudos to the Flight crew on averting a potential disaster!!!:D:D:D

PtKay: I dream to be wrong on that one, yet it's hard to distinguish what is PR and what is firsthand report. We'll definitely see testimonials in the press starting tomorrow morning.

737-200 has a procedure as well for Gear Lever Jammed in The UP Position. It involves turning off the controlling hydraulic system pumps and then cycling the Speedbrake Handle to reduce hydraulic pressure below 500 psi, pull the manual gear extension handles and then cycle the speedbrakes until 3 green which could take up to 4 minutes.

Unfortunately, tomorrow we will see the typical jurno hunt for stories,
no matter, true or false, main thing, they sell... :ugh:

We, Polish, are the specialists, also, in turning any of our glories
into a mud slinging battle against each other, and eventually into disaster. :(

Lets, for a moment, at least, celebrate the great outcome
of this potentially critical situation and the skills and perfection
of the cockpit and cabin crew.

Lot 767
 

I wondered how long it would be before Danair came up.

According to my recollection the Stansted wheels up was an Ambassador
There was a Comet wheelsup at NCL off a training flt

Anyone remember more details

Having said that the Lot 767 looks like a very classy landing and I dont really care about the technicalities of whether all three bits of gear malfunctioned

It has been reported that the C hyd system failure happened about 30 min after departure. Having just had a look at my B763 QRH to referesh my memory. Is the C system loss is not a fairly significant failure to continue to WAW 8 some hours away?

Tiny bit of thread drift, but well, here we go. . . .

To echo what Clandestino has said, doors may well have closed, rather than opened for this crew.
If you check the requirements, for many many companies worldwide, the requirements are " NO ACCIDENT/INCIDENT " record, not, "no screw-ups & I heroically saved everyones @ss so this doesn't count record" , but "NO accident/incident".

Read about BA038 and you will see the significance of this on someones career prospects if he ventures forth subsequent to his "impeccable performance of duties" day.
Jobsworths who have no comprehension of the difference between saving the day for all concerned, vs fouling up royally, came perilously close to destroying the career/life of someone whose only fault was to be rostered as Capt for the wrong flight on the wrong day.
These LOT guys are similarly blighted in the blinkered eyes of the w@nkers who decide whether or not they are good employment prospects.
What Joe Public should be told at any subsequent press conference, is that these crew,simply because they were called upon to complete their jobs , in extremis, to the highest standards possible, have rendered themselves virtually unemployable , by the likes of Emirates/Korean & many others.
SCANDALOUS, & should be publicised as such by IFALPA whilst the iron is hot. If only a Union had the imagination & b@lls to seize on the opportunity,to attempt to right this, Oh so obvious, wrong, but of course they have far more important issues to ignore than this.
OK, rant over, back to the subject.

747JJ, I do indeed know,really know, where you are coming from with this. 20yrs Capt on 767,no doubt very senior in the company, no doubt mindful of what LOT would like. . . . but, as a previous poster has posted, the same thing in the dark,in the US, would have been a whole lot more difficult for all concerned,it would have been a good idea anyhow to burn off/dump fuel, so time would have been needed before any attempted landing.

I will leave it to those familiar with the 767 to state whether the loss of that system alone would have given them any qualms before setting off over the pond. Outside my type-specific knowledge, so cannot really comment.

In my experience of aviation which is very long, I've always found that it pays to wait until the Court of Enquiry finishes its work before handing out the medals.

I don´t get the hero point of this crew, you have a complete hidraulic failure 1 hour after T/O and you fly all the atlantic to Warsaw? Either someone got the wrong information or these guys are suicidal!!!

Reading the observations, questions and responses on this thread, I'm astonished at how few contributors to this site are "PROFESSIONAL PILOTS".

. . . .well, that REALLY increases my comfort level when considering flying on the 787 . . . I realize that landings such as this are rare, but still . . . :ugh:

lear60fellow,
Don't think it was mentioned anywhere COMPLETE hydraulic failure, merely 1 (of 3 ), systems. Oh, and I think it was 30min after dep, not 1hr.

As I have said ( & you should also respect, I would humbly suggest) without a detailed knowledge of the 767 systems , it would be foolish to publicly applaud/nor castigate the crew at this stage, other than saying, damned fine landing ! !

:bored: I really can't believe the hype about a straight forward wheels up landing. There's nothing extraordinary about it. Any commercial pilot is capable of it. It's not that unusual an event. It might be text book and all that but come on folks let's not get too carried away now.

They did not have a complete hydraulic failure. They lost one of THREE "separate and independent" hydraulic systems. Not a very big deal and certainly not suicidal. In the very unlikely event that another hyd system were to fail on the same flight a landing could have been made on the one remaining system. And consider this: it doesn't make any difference at all whether you try your luck at alternate gear extention (which is supposed to work anyway) in New York, or eight hours later in Warsaw.
In my opinion, a perfectly logical decision. You just can't beat Murphy if he decides to fail the alternate system as well. Looks to me the crew played the hand they were dealt perfectly.

lear60

What would you do? The C system has already done its job and raised the gear and flap. Not long later it quits. It does very little in the cruise apart from power the centre autopilot. You run the QRH and it eventually tells you to turn the system pumps off and prepare for an ALTN flap and ALTN gear landing. It specifically does not tell you to land and the nearest suitable airport.

I'm interested in why you think it is "suicidal" to continue.

Sad how a "professional pilot" is so keen to castigate other "professional pilots", without A - knowing the facts & B- having any specific type knowledge.

Welcome to the unregulated forums of pprune

& dont forget to read the text in RED at the bottom of the page. :hmm:

Just SLF but even I don't understand Lear60's criticism.How long would you have had to fly round in circles to burn off enough fuel and reduce weight to have anything like the chance of the landing they eventualy achieved? I would have thought trying to land sooner, heavier and with a lot more fuel (and no wheels which is also probably a pretty big drawback)would have been far more dangerous?

Unless Murphy shows up over the Atlantic and demands to go to Greenland in the middle of the night.

You may be SLF (your description , not mine, you pay my wages ! ) but you are right.
lear60, is, possibly, professional, but is not, at this moment, being so. QED

Awaryjne l

Half way through the article there is a pic of the LOT16 burning fuel while flying over Warsaw.

The tower tells the pilot, no gears and wishes them good luck.

The C system has three independent pumps powered by two independent sources. Therefore the only likely way for the system to completely fail is total fluid loss.

The landing gear has a Alternate system which relies on electrically releasing the three landing gear uplocks and allowing them to fall under gravity. You cannot selectively lower each landing gear via the Altn system so in all probability the entire Altn system also failed.

On the face of it, there must have been multiple failures on this aircraft. C hydraulic system, Altn Landing gear system? The question will be why.

Great landing by the crew, but I'd hold off on lionising them until all the facts are known.

I am a glider pilot too... but knowing how to fly a glider probably contributed very little to the safe outcome of this incident.

One more movie from landing, different angle.


If embedded doesn't work for you then click on it to open it directly on youtube

Yes, that would make for a bad day - but only really so in the very remote case of a second hydraulic system failing (of course I'm not considering exploded tires or something of the like here, which could possibly damage multiple systems).
I guess it all depends on how comfortable you are with statistics and odds of 10 to the minus X.

So he flew an ILS approach then:hmm:? It was only the wheels that were missing I believe, not the engines:ugh:

Mm! No spoilers even after full touch down. :confused:

When, 22 years ago, I started flying 737's, I was told ( & how many times subsequently forgot ? ? ? :rolleyes:) whatever, WHATEVER the problem, check the circuit breakers, then, you, or the first officer, get out the seat, slide it forward, & check again, because many, many , faults can be fixed in 1 second by resetting a tripped circuit breaker.

As I retire for the evening, my fondest wish , for Polish colleagues, is simply that the system that controls the releasing of the up-locks, has not "malfunctioned" by the simple expedient of requiring that someone reset a circuit breaker.
This being the case, I understand, whole-heartedly the mistake, & can also predict (accurately) the outcome of the court of enquiry.

Hoping it is nothing of the sort, & that the guys involved are going to bed sometime later tonight I imagine,"well rested " :zzz: after combatting the effects of dehydration following a long transatantic flight. :D

Edited to say, the CB's on a 737 are hidden, in every nook & cranny possible, but principally behind where you sit,the 757 (& I guess 767? ) appears to present most of them right above your skull, so,my paranoid scenario is much less likely I guess/hope.

"Nice landing" medal is due even if the inquiry finds out that the problem was crew generated or aggravated. It can easily turn out to be otherwise. Patience on overall grading is fine.

You might actually be correct, in some parallel universe, where widebodies make a dozen or so belly landings every day.

No WOW detection for reasons obvious for everyone who has seen the video(s). The aeroplane stopped just fine without them.

Regarding no spoiler deployment, on the last video you can see spoilers deploying briefly on the port wing but it would seem only as part of the roll control. I guess if they dumped the lift straight after touchdown that would lead to a lot more friction on the runway at high speed and possible less response from the rudder.

(I'm not a professional pilot yet. Unless someone wants to give me my first job :ugh:)

Well, think about it! :ugh:

No wheels on runway... So no weight on wheels switch could be triggered!

mnez,
A passenger of this flight I had an opportunity to talk with said they have been invited to Presidential/Senator lounges.

767 ALT Gear Extension employs electric unlock of MG Doors and Nose gear.

Here is an "on jacks" test of 767 ALT Gear Extension that failed:
The subject case appears to have never released the locks if reports of "no hydraulics" are true.

Job well done on the landing... one thing strikes me as curious though...

I'm not 767 rated so the following is probably incorrect, just want to ask it anyway.

Even if the gear uplocks themselves would not release wouldn't the MLG doors open? But without HYD C they would be unable to close them. Is this correct?

I am very confident that the crew not only would have consulted the QRH for such failures (which would most likely tell them about a tripped CB) but also got in contact with the maintenance and operations department of the airline, who would have most definitely gone through step by step every possible scenario which would have caused a malfunction of the ALTN GEAR system.

It would be completely stupid if the crew noticed the failure of the central hydraulic system and ALTN GEAR system and thought "oh, erm, no point trying to troubleshoot up here. Let's land and then the investigation will take care of it."

They had 8 hours to troubleshoot everything to do with the central hydraulic system failure and another hour (?) to troubleshoot the ALTN GEAR failure.

Of course not, it amazes me that people are even asking this question. Besides, enough drag/ friction coefficient for stopping distance not to be a concern

With all respect, you might want to rephrase that to "Any commercial pilot should be capable of it." Over the years, a substantial number of threads on this forum have been devoted to situations a commercial pilot seemingly should have been able to handle safely, yet somehow didn't. At least not on that particular day.

I'm amazed at the responses to the comments about no spoilers after touchdown.

WOW? Who cares, pull the speedbrake handle. It doesn't require WOW activation.