Spotters already placed hi quality photos on airliners.net

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../9/2006913.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../9/2006912.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../8/2006893.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../8/2006892.jpg

My eyes are still wet.

Too long since I flew this beast; so forgive me if I've forgotten much. I can't remember the reserve electric motor to release the uplocks. If this didn't work it suggests a multiple failure, but on the same system. It does not sound a good design if the back up of any system has failed and when you need it you find it is not working. Is there no warning of this on the lower screen? Secondly, it seems too complicated to have an electrical back up system. The good old basic cable on the B737 seems perhaps more fail-safe, although someone will have a story to refute that: plus it would be a longer cable.
I do remember the story of a BA B757 on base training duty who could not get the gear down by any means. The solution devised (lucky they had the fuel while the tech gurus devised the solution) was to depressurise the hydraulic system which kept the gear up. Then the back up system could be used and once released aerodynamics + gravity did the rest. Here both primary and back up system failed. I appreciate the back up system is only to release the uplocks. A bad hair day. back to the drawing board Boeing. I'll be interested on the FAA's response.
After this I would expect a detailed update of the FCTM as to how perform this manoeuvre. Sadly, not every airline carries this on board. Strange that the instruction manual is not kept beside the equipment it is relevant to. Where do you keep your car manual? Next will be a glover box in front of F/O.

Bad day at the office

Great crew

Superb result. Respect is due.

Perhaps the bean counters can remind the travelling public how much a professional crew are really worth on the accounts sheets?


SAFETY COSTS MONEY.

By The Book
 

Capt Wrona taking a leaf out of Sully's book there. First class arrival. Re foaming of runways, I know from experience that Geneva will do it. There's always going to be the Occam's Razor debate about the virtues of foaming a runway and the arguments against. A feeling of 'here we go..'

Glider
 

Hmm, USAir into the Hudson - Sully is glider pilot, here - glider pilot. Do I see a pattern (ok, n=2 is not a pattern, I know). Would it be a good idea to have the guys start with glider training before going to powered planes. Maybe 1 year or so (maybe 6 mo) longer training but saved lives?

Confirmed. Quite a number of airports have the facility - depends on the situation though and takes quite a while.

As for the landing, beautifully done.:ok:

If you check carefully the photos the spoilers were used,
but only in the final phase of slowing down.

Photos
 

More photos here, including what appears to be a clean runway (with the exception of the fire foam).
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net

Some more good ones here JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos-Registration Search: SP-LPC
Actually, this one at the beginning of the runway looks like there might have been foam and it ran off it.

On the 'Yahoo' website, the headline for this story is... "Broken landing gear forces plane down"
Don't you love 'journalists'. :E
And don't you love the crew who did such a great job here. :ok:

All Gear Up
 

Rat 5 You remember well. In fact story went that Gear Lever actually came off in hand during UP selection, so all gear pressurised up and solution as you posted. There was a procedure in the QRH for that for many years afterwards.

I was going to venture something along the same lines for this LOT incident but you beat me to it in a way. However I think it is possible that this incident will turn out to be gear still pressurised up as that would be the only common link. Perhaps the selector valve stuck/trapped in UP position? Cable snapped after UP selection? This would preclude Gravity procedure.

Just a couple of thoughts.

The landing was so smooth, that the passengers were sure that
in the last moment the gear eventually was extended.

All Gear Up
 

Found it, I had posted this some time ago in another thread. It is for B757 not 767.

http://i317.photobucket.com/albums/m...illNotMove.jpghttp://s317.photobucket.com/albums/m...ove.jpghttp://

Incredible skills
 

Absolutely schoolbook landing and evacuation. I am astonished.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.:mad:

Didn't the "Gimli Glider" captain also have gliding experience?

This was not a glider, it was an airplane without landing gear. Great job by the crew.

Wrona means crow in Polish.

Over the Polish internet a new saying is circulating:

"Lataj jak orzeł, ląduj jak Wrona"
"Fly like an eagle, land like a Crow"

:)

Soon another definition of a "crow hop" will be needed
in the aviation dictionaries.

LOT belly landing video
 

is here (downpage, with 30-sec ad I'm afraid)

Flight from Newark makes emergency landing in Poland (video) - CSMonitor.com

Interesting that the tail skid is deployed. IIRC that is also extended/retracted by the centre hyd system on the -300.

[QUOTE]Absolutely schoolbook landing and evacuation. I am astonished.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.
[/QUOTE

Have always been very impressed by the Poles - hard working and dedicated. Last company I flew with we went to lots of Polish destinations and everyone concerned were always very efficient, business like and professional.

My father was a flying instructor in the UK during WW2 and taught many Poles to fly - he always spoke very highly of their loyalty and dedication.

Excellent job by the pilots & cabin crew! thank good nobody was injured:)
Wonder if there will be any videos from inside the pax cabin on youtube?

Hydraulic Failure???
 

If they did not have specific indications of hydraulic failure that would affect the flight controls, going "all the way" may have been the best option given that it would be daylight on landing in Krakov while landing after burning down fuel in the U.S. would have had to be after dark.

Well once in a while we can speak on a positive note...

Congrats to the flight deck and cabin crew on a perfect job.

Glad everything turned out the way it should... Well, well done!

i just saw it- superb work ! here crew coordination, coolness and the following of procedures seemed to work perfektly ! the flaps seemed to deploy and he nevertheless seemed to keep the approach speed higher to prevent a high nose pitch up and a hard tail strike with gear up landing.

Cpt. Wrona has 15.000 h experience,
fortunately, not only on "fly by wire" aircraft. :)

Well I have no idea of the specifics of teh 767 but unless I can positively establish that the failure will not escalate I would be rather worried about crossing the Atlantic under such circumstances...

Looking forward to more info on what happened here :)

Gimili Glider's capt was a real glider pilot and so were the two captains in the Transat fuel incidents IIRC

What has FBW got to do with this incident? Or is this supposed to be a cheap shot at Airbus? Remember Air Transat 236?

What fantastic role models for our industry are these guys!!

The crew on the Hudson did a fantastic job and I reckon these boys just about take number one spot as much bigger beast and on runway just like normal landing.

This is why our colleagues on the flight deck deserve respect and reward.

Well done the cabin crew for the evacuation as well.

well. the "glider" experience is of course a pure speculation so far- BUT ... having a natural sense for pitch, airspeed and descendrate as raw aerodynamical data is NEVER wrong, regardless what kind of aircraft.

surely the 20 years 767 experience was priceless in saving lives. this pilots will have a big sallary boost or an open door in every other airline- the copilot included :-)

vctenderness,
Whilst in no way wishing to detract from these guys great landing, I would take issue with putting their achievment in the same league as Sully.

He was handed a glider, with no prepared site to land on, & pulled off a textbook deadstick arrival in a bloody river, in the middle of a city.

These guys performed an immaculate gear up landing on a runway, with adequate time to prepare, with full thrust/normal controllability available .

Great performance, but don't sully Sully's justified reputation by comparing the two.

Well done the LOT crew :D but we are really talking apples vs oranges, even if Ptkay believes we have just witnessed the arrival of the new Messiah.

And a warning for the 787 from LOT incident
 

Superb piloting by Captain Wrona and his crew and glad that foaming helped lower fire risk.
However there is a clear warning here for both FAA and EASA regarding 787 potential fire and FST hazards in a similar situation. Ignition temperature for aluminum is 2000 degrees F, but less than 600 degrees F for epoxies used on 787, 580 degrees F to be precise, thus less than 1/3rd that of aluminum.
Even with foaming which greatly helped in this LOT incident, epoxy based fires ignited on both composite nacelles which defines the low auto-igntion temperatures hazard. A lot of runways do not employ foam which only worsens the situation regarding skin friction heating and auto-ignition. This is why the FAA was urgently requested to perform a belly up skin friction heating test as part of a Special Condition, but they refused claiming "simulations were sufficient". In case of of 787 one can anticipate both nacelle and fuselage skin friction fires with consequent much more severe results re fire and resultant FST. They can't say they have not been warned.

vtenderness
 

Now you are going too far. This LOT crew carried out a text book non normal landing and assisted by cabin crew doing their job very well too. Kudos to them all.

However, this incident is in no way comparable to the Hudson A320 ditching-not even close. The LOT crew, as far as we are aware at this time, had an aeroplane with malfunctioning landing gear but was otherwise serviceable. The A320 crew had no thrust and so very very limited control of their flight path.

I would not detract one iota from the LOT crew's skills and teamwork in achieving a great success but please let's keep things in perspective.

According to Flight International, LOT have stated that the centre hydraulic system failed. Whilst not an every day event, it is not that unusual either. I experienced the same (leaking spoiler actuator) on the centre system about 5 years ago.

This requires use of ALTN flap (20 versus 30) and ALTN gear. What will be interesting to discover is why the gear failed to extend on the ALTN system.

On a slight side note about the options available to Sully: The river he chose was on the ebb and therefore very smooth. Had the river been in flood, there would have been a very choppy surface. That does not detract from what he did.

The Polish crew (flight and cabon), with the ground crews and pre-landing support do indeed show where the money goes.

No need to compare the Hudson river case with this. Both are very good examples to the whole industry that we still need real pilots with real flying experience built up from the basics and that experience cannot be replaced by various courses..(MCC's;) or zero to ATPL in a year things;))

outstanding stick and rudder flying!
congrats to the crew! both air and ground crew!

Great job, glad that worked out.

BTW the AF447 FO held a glider license...

this would not have happened on a fbw airbus at least !!!
there is no such "electric" alternate, gear lowering back up is a good old style mechanical thing ;-)

Captain did a great landing,

And he did nothing wrong..

But the engineers might be abit worried, center hyd failure should leave the gear able to gravity fall as long as there is electrical power available, ie if you have an unlikely complete electical failure before the battery is gone lower the gear, the up locks are controlled electrically.

So a center hydraulic failure will not leave the aircraft in a gear up situation.

Boeing paid people alot of money to think this through, and its never happened before, the imparla's an old girl now and this is a first.

767 VS 757 hydraulic systems are very different.

Well done to all the crew.

thank you all for sharing extremely good words about us Poles.
yes we happen to have quite a few brilliant individuals, not only Curie, Chopin, Copernicus, Malysz, Kubica or John Paul II, but lots lots of nameless hard working people in every job in every corner of this planet.
the problem is though we don't work in teams, we don't organize, we are heroes not conquerers.
the whole air traffic in Poland is frozen at this very moment, no one knows when the body of B767 will be removed, all inbound flights are either diverted or on hold. my colleague is now stuck in Rzeszow, no one is able to tell him when and if he will board a flight to WAW.
another example is that from 230 people saved from the plane almost no one had passport with him, so majority had to wait 5 hours standing in the corridor just in front of immigration because border guard won't let them in without papers - as one of them reported.

I hope, 50 more years and maybe we will catch up.
Today, again, kudos to the pilot and the crew, who did their job in absolutely western standard.

I am not making gods out of these pilots.
I just said, perfect landing, a perfect greaser as usual...
I am also not bashing Airbus FbW, but confirming the need of real flying
experience, as mentioned in the above quote.

There are more and more pilots, called by the old foxes from LOT,
"the thumb pilots".

They know only how to use their thumb to turn some knobs on the AP.

As opposite to "stick and rudder" pilots, hailed in the post: