Panic in Pilots
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You might be interested in the FAA "Aviation Instructors Handbook" which has some basic material on learning and psychology as it relates to (student) pilots. Fear narrows the perceptual field was the most interesting aspect to me.
I think humans have a many and varied reaction to dangerous situations, such as a stopped/broken engine in an airplane and this should be carefully and fully trained out and replaced with a reasoned and thorough response using checklists and knowledge to best resolve the situation.
I experienced a partial engine failure in a 172, and after it went bang, I probably froze for a couple of seconds (why me !?!?!?!) before I started dealing with the problem ...
o Aviate !
o Navigate !
o Communicate !
I think humans have a many and varied reaction to dangerous situations, such as a stopped/broken engine in an airplane and this should be carefully and fully trained out and replaced with a reasoned and thorough response using checklists and knowledge to best resolve the situation.
I experienced a partial engine failure in a 172, and after it went bang, I probably froze for a couple of seconds (why me !?!?!?!) before I started dealing with the problem ...
o Aviate !
o Navigate !
o Communicate !
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Thankyou for the replys so far - They have all been very helpful.
I agree that "Panic" is an emotive word, and probably should not be used when describing behaviour in this context.
My definition (taken from studies of military training methods dating from WWII) describes panic as a maladaptive form of the fight or flight response. Fight or flight, otherwise known as escape behaviour, is an instinctual response, hard wired into the most "primitive" parts of our brains. This response to a threat prepares us physiologically and mentally to run or fight. Pulse increases, blood is pumped to the limbs, functions such as digestion cease momentarily, and adrenalin circulates through the body. The problem is, this hard wired instinctual response tends to overide our higher thinking processes, which is fine if you're running away from a snake but not so good in a cockpit.
This is why training is so important - the procedures to deal with a problem become "hardwired" themselves and thus make up for any cognitive deficits that may occur.
But what about situations where there is little training, such as upset recovery? As mentioned in the above discussion the best thing to do is "sit on your hands" (obviously not for too long!) and work out what the aeroplane is doing. Once the pilot is over the initial "startle" they can take control of the aeroplane.
Panic situations can occur when a hasty, intinctual reaction to a startling situation is incorrect and thus plunges the pilot into deeper and deeper layers of confusion and rapidly increasing anxiety, making it harder to regain control.
Currently the leading cause of airline fatalities in the US are "loss of control" accidents. In response to this, the FAA is funding a program to train commercial pilots in upset recovery - in essense, training to "hardwire" pilot responses, making upsets less "startling" and therefore shortening the time before regaining control.
"The 'startle factor' may significantly delay a pilot in starting recovery from an upset" (http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModu...ocumentID=1930)
Could the "startle factor" be a precurser for a possible panic situation? Maybe I should rename panic "The Extended Startle".
Any suggestions?
Regards
Trish
I agree that "Panic" is an emotive word, and probably should not be used when describing behaviour in this context.
My definition (taken from studies of military training methods dating from WWII) describes panic as a maladaptive form of the fight or flight response. Fight or flight, otherwise known as escape behaviour, is an instinctual response, hard wired into the most "primitive" parts of our brains. This response to a threat prepares us physiologically and mentally to run or fight. Pulse increases, blood is pumped to the limbs, functions such as digestion cease momentarily, and adrenalin circulates through the body. The problem is, this hard wired instinctual response tends to overide our higher thinking processes, which is fine if you're running away from a snake but not so good in a cockpit.
This is why training is so important - the procedures to deal with a problem become "hardwired" themselves and thus make up for any cognitive deficits that may occur.
But what about situations where there is little training, such as upset recovery? As mentioned in the above discussion the best thing to do is "sit on your hands" (obviously not for too long!) and work out what the aeroplane is doing. Once the pilot is over the initial "startle" they can take control of the aeroplane.
Panic situations can occur when a hasty, intinctual reaction to a startling situation is incorrect and thus plunges the pilot into deeper and deeper layers of confusion and rapidly increasing anxiety, making it harder to regain control.
Currently the leading cause of airline fatalities in the US are "loss of control" accidents. In response to this, the FAA is funding a program to train commercial pilots in upset recovery - in essense, training to "hardwire" pilot responses, making upsets less "startling" and therefore shortening the time before regaining control.
"The 'startle factor' may significantly delay a pilot in starting recovery from an upset" (http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModu...ocumentID=1930)
Could the "startle factor" be a precurser for a possible panic situation? Maybe I should rename panic "The Extended Startle".
Any suggestions?
Regards
Trish
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Trish,
I certainly don't want to be accused of being persnickity here, but I'm not sure we mean the same thing when we say "loss of control". If the vertical fin and engines fall off, I guess you're "out of control" but I don't see that pilot behavior or emotions at that point have much to do with the "cause" of the accident.
The only part 121 accident that I can think of off the top of my head that involves "loss of control" and might (and I use the word might here advisedly) have been avoided by different inputs by the pilots is the Airborne Express crash in the late 90s. After reading that transcript, panic is the last word that comes to mind. In fact, I was almost nonplussed by the crew's calm.
Perhaps if you gave us an idea of what accidents you're thinking of?
Best regards,
TRF
I certainly don't want to be accused of being persnickity here, but I'm not sure we mean the same thing when we say "loss of control". If the vertical fin and engines fall off, I guess you're "out of control" but I don't see that pilot behavior or emotions at that point have much to do with the "cause" of the accident.
The only part 121 accident that I can think of off the top of my head that involves "loss of control" and might (and I use the word might here advisedly) have been avoided by different inputs by the pilots is the Airborne Express crash in the late 90s. After reading that transcript, panic is the last word that comes to mind. In fact, I was almost nonplussed by the crew's calm.
Perhaps if you gave us an idea of what accidents you're thinking of?
Best regards,
TRF
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As a layman, having read multiple CVR transcripts- the only time cockpit crew appear (IMHO) to approach panic is when its absolutely clear the aircraft is unrecoverable. Most of the time it seems more of an angry resignation of their fate and inability to control it. Two that come to mind are PSA San Diego and USAir 427. It is clear the crews were working hard and it is also clear based upon the attitude of the A/C into ground that toward th end they knew what was coming. This however is balanced against the professional courage shown by the crews of both the Valujet Miami and Alaska Air MD-80 crashes. It made my hair stand up reading as both crews didn't quit in spite of obviously major challenges flying the A/C.
Could the "startle factor" be a precurser for a possible panic situation? Maybe I should rename panic "The Extended Startle".
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
I like your definition of the Extended startle Factor
I have done some work in this regards and spent many hours working with live CVR's that ended with a "click"
Some of the startle factors start with noises while others start with control perceptions (WTF was that? or unh oh?)
Sometimes the problem is when the other crew members stay silent or blurt out the wrong call resulting in a rapidly deteriorated situation and no time to back out of the wrong call.
Silence sometimes is your friend as it gives the questioning pilot time to focus on his own question before acting. Although in some cases requiring decisions in 1-3 seconds the questioning pilot acts anyway with an increased error rate.
If you want we could take some of this off-line with my (limited) examples after you put together a data gathering plan..
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Trish,
While admittedly this is an area of interesting research I too think that a clear understanding of some of the terminology is required.
“Loss of control” to a layperson is understood by the terms of reference that they have at their disposal. Another is the phrase “the aircraft stalled” also pretty much universally misunderstood by the media and general public. I would invite you to sit down with some folks in your area who have a solid aviation background to impart some of their knowledge to you. This will allow you to gain a better understanding of some of the material.
As for upset training, I know of a number of operators that are providing this. In our case, we have been providing annual upset training to our flight crews since 1986. It’s as you suggest, another valuable tool in the knowledge/skill base of flight crews.
Best of luck in your continued research.
604guy
While admittedly this is an area of interesting research I too think that a clear understanding of some of the terminology is required.
“Loss of control” to a layperson is understood by the terms of reference that they have at their disposal. Another is the phrase “the aircraft stalled” also pretty much universally misunderstood by the media and general public. I would invite you to sit down with some folks in your area who have a solid aviation background to impart some of their knowledge to you. This will allow you to gain a better understanding of some of the material.
As for upset training, I know of a number of operators that are providing this. In our case, we have been providing annual upset training to our flight crews since 1986. It’s as you suggest, another valuable tool in the knowledge/skill base of flight crews.
Best of luck in your continued research.
604guy
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Trish,
I'm sure that the ability to cope with emergency situations increases with training levels and experience.
Professional pilots deal with an emergency from a checklist and rationalise it. If we panic, we die. A prime example of dealing with a major emergency by not 'panicking', and particularly one not in a checklist, would be the Sioux City crash where many lives were saved.
We do not sit on the flight deck and lose our heads completely. In a commercial ( ie: pax carrying flight there are two crew anyway. One person alone may be more incined to lose control)
In the two incidents I have been involved with in 10 years of flying, no-one 'panicked'. We used our training to resolve safely two potentially dangerous situations. A bit like Pavlov's dogs perhaps.
I'm sure that the ability to cope with emergency situations increases with training levels and experience.
Professional pilots deal with an emergency from a checklist and rationalise it. If we panic, we die. A prime example of dealing with a major emergency by not 'panicking', and particularly one not in a checklist, would be the Sioux City crash where many lives were saved.
We do not sit on the flight deck and lose our heads completely. In a commercial ( ie: pax carrying flight there are two crew anyway. One person alone may be more incined to lose control)
In the two incidents I have been involved with in 10 years of flying, no-one 'panicked'. We used our training to resolve safely two potentially dangerous situations. A bit like Pavlov's dogs perhaps.
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I have not seen panic - but occasionally see the "Stunned Mullet" syndrome. In the simulator there is a typical scenario where an engine fire is "arranged" on lift off. Bell rings loudly- red warning lights occur and the captain calmly directs the first officer to "Carry out the Recall Items for Engine Fire, Severe Damage, or Separation".
Enter the Stunned Mullet look by the startled first officer who for the life of him cannot remember the opening line of the Recall Items. Meanwhile the fire blazes merrily away in the engine lighting up the frightened faces of the passengers staring like more stunned mullets out of the windows.
Calmly and through gritted teeth the captain repeats his order to the first officer who by now has suffered total writers block. The bloody Recall Items for engine fire, he repeats to himself. What the stuff are they - I should know - Iv'e done it a thousand times in the sim before. Now that's where panic sets in....
Enter the Stunned Mullet look by the startled first officer who for the life of him cannot remember the opening line of the Recall Items. Meanwhile the fire blazes merrily away in the engine lighting up the frightened faces of the passengers staring like more stunned mullets out of the windows.
Calmly and through gritted teeth the captain repeats his order to the first officer who by now has suffered total writers block. The bloody Recall Items for engine fire, he repeats to himself. What the stuff are they - I should know - Iv'e done it a thousand times in the sim before. Now that's where panic sets in....
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Good distinction Hudson. The 'freeze' reaction consists of doing nothing when something must be done. I'd classify panic as doing the wrong thing through lack of training/thought/control etc.
Experience is by far the most important influence so the instances of inappropriate responses in Part 121 (and equivalent) are rare indeed, perhaps even to the point of non-existence. In other types of operation (some of which are 'commercial'), I suggest that these reactions can and do occur. And if we move into GA, a cursory look at the records reveals a depressing number of both 'inaction' and 'wrong action' accidents. How many other pilots have panicked but got away with it, nobody knows. A goodly proportion I'd imagine, truth be known.
Experience is by far the most important influence so the instances of inappropriate responses in Part 121 (and equivalent) are rare indeed, perhaps even to the point of non-existence. In other types of operation (some of which are 'commercial'), I suggest that these reactions can and do occur. And if we move into GA, a cursory look at the records reveals a depressing number of both 'inaction' and 'wrong action' accidents. How many other pilots have panicked but got away with it, nobody knows. A goodly proportion I'd imagine, truth be known.
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For my research, I am using the FAA's definition of "loss of control":
"Loss of Control refers to accidents resulting from situations in which the pilot should have maintained or regained aircraft control but did not."
http://www.faa.gov/index.cfm/apa/105...9B2E02A8F969E4
See also: "Aerodynamic Principles of Large-Airplane Upsets"
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...y/fo01txt.html
Regards
Trish
"Loss of Control refers to accidents resulting from situations in which the pilot should have maintained or regained aircraft control but did not."
http://www.faa.gov/index.cfm/apa/105...9B2E02A8F969E4
See also: "Aerodynamic Principles of Large-Airplane Upsets"
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...y/fo01txt.html
Regards
Trish
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Dear Trish
Back when I was flying I remember a couple of accidents that occurred in the early 70s in the vicinity of St Thomas, Virgin Islands. The accident investigator specifically attributed the cause of these accidents to the "fight or flight" response. He argued that this instinctual response caused the pilots to behave (in your words), "contrary to their training".
You might be interested in reading the accident reports, if you can get hold of them.
Cheers
Pondhopper
Back when I was flying I remember a couple of accidents that occurred in the early 70s in the vicinity of St Thomas, Virgin Islands. The accident investigator specifically attributed the cause of these accidents to the "fight or flight" response. He argued that this instinctual response caused the pilots to behave (in your words), "contrary to their training".
You might be interested in reading the accident reports, if you can get hold of them.
Cheers
Pondhopper
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panic in pilots
Trish I believe the authors of the posts on this thread may agree with the stupidity of the statement, "No Fear". Perhaps they might even subscribe to a more realistic, "Respect Fear"?
In my experience when you find yourself in a situation outside of normal operations you are initaly exposed to the symptoms of, "Fight or Flight". It is how you react afterward, with the monster of "panic" dancing through your veins, that determines the final outcome. As has been mentioned often Trish, training and regimented procedure are the key to sucess, but also, a productive imagination will be of imense benifit when dealing with none standard emergencies. The above has always got me to the bar for a beer afterward
Good luck.
In my experience when you find yourself in a situation outside of normal operations you are initaly exposed to the symptoms of, "Fight or Flight". It is how you react afterward, with the monster of "panic" dancing through your veins, that determines the final outcome. As has been mentioned often Trish, training and regimented procedure are the key to sucess, but also, a productive imagination will be of imense benifit when dealing with none standard emergencies. The above has always got me to the bar for a beer afterward
Good luck.
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Trish,
Well, you learn something every day. I must say I've never heard of "aircraft upset". I find the definition very interesting, too:
__________________________________________________
An airplane upset is defined as "an airplane unintentionally
exceeding the parameters normally experienced in line
operations or training." Specifically, an upset occurs when
pitch exceeds 25 degrees nose up or 10 degrees nose down,
or bank angle exceeds 45 degrees.
__________________________________________________
I realise that in normal line ops that the above are probably never going to be exceeded. It surprises me that they are not exceeded in training.
It may interest you to look at a military aviation perspective as many military types are regularly flown to greater angles of pitch and bank than that described above. I'm not talking about fast jets here, but transport and patrol aircraft such as C130 Hercules and P3 Orions. For example, a Herc pilot in normal ops will go to 60 AoB and, briefly, more nose up then 25 and nose down then 10.
In the sim, things can go even further. That said, just like the civvy jet guys, once you get past what you are used to, it gets your attention. I cannot say whether we do more UA (Unusual Attitude) recovery than our civilian counterparts or not. I do know that on pilots course (in training types rated to -4 to +7 g) that UA recoveries could see 90 nose up, down or anything in between. A good deal different to what I would expect in one of the big jets, of course, but we may have had an advantage in flying a PC9/Tucano/JPATS in ab initio flying than, say, a Warrior II in that we have been exposed to extreme aircraft upsets. Still, if I saw 90 degrees nose down in the Herc I may not be too calm about things.
Well, you learn something every day. I must say I've never heard of "aircraft upset". I find the definition very interesting, too:
__________________________________________________
An airplane upset is defined as "an airplane unintentionally
exceeding the parameters normally experienced in line
operations or training." Specifically, an upset occurs when
pitch exceeds 25 degrees nose up or 10 degrees nose down,
or bank angle exceeds 45 degrees.
__________________________________________________
I realise that in normal line ops that the above are probably never going to be exceeded. It surprises me that they are not exceeded in training.
It may interest you to look at a military aviation perspective as many military types are regularly flown to greater angles of pitch and bank than that described above. I'm not talking about fast jets here, but transport and patrol aircraft such as C130 Hercules and P3 Orions. For example, a Herc pilot in normal ops will go to 60 AoB and, briefly, more nose up then 25 and nose down then 10.
In the sim, things can go even further. That said, just like the civvy jet guys, once you get past what you are used to, it gets your attention. I cannot say whether we do more UA (Unusual Attitude) recovery than our civilian counterparts or not. I do know that on pilots course (in training types rated to -4 to +7 g) that UA recoveries could see 90 nose up, down or anything in between. A good deal different to what I would expect in one of the big jets, of course, but we may have had an advantage in flying a PC9/Tucano/JPATS in ab initio flying than, say, a Warrior II in that we have been exposed to extreme aircraft upsets. Still, if I saw 90 degrees nose down in the Herc I may not be too calm about things.
Props are for boats!
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When I was in the RAAF we used to do "Panics" on Monday nights in the Barracks before "Standby Beds" on Tuesday mornings. But me thinks this is not relevant to this conersation.
Panics in the RAAF usually comprise of the following:
1. Bed Rolls or Hospital Corners totally dependant on the Drill Seargants mood.
2. Brassod Urinals and Taps to Mirror finish.
3. Shoe Polished Skirting Boards to a sheen.
4. Buffed and polished floors
5. Every Item of you kit Labelled
6. Rifle Cleaned and disassembled on your bed.
So really not much to do with the word PANIC except that one panics to complete it all in time. Some never sleeped. I never slept for the first 2 weeks of RTU.
The level of Panic in aviation may be relative to the size of the catastrophic event. If the event was too overwhelming. Example loss of Wings in flight , like the C-130 Fire bomber a few years back. God rest their souls.
Regards
Sheep
Regards
Sheep
P.S. IS a Panic is ones quick response to a situation or imimenant dangerous occurence? The response being either not rational or rational
Panics in the RAAF usually comprise of the following:
1. Bed Rolls or Hospital Corners totally dependant on the Drill Seargants mood.
2. Brassod Urinals and Taps to Mirror finish.
3. Shoe Polished Skirting Boards to a sheen.
4. Buffed and polished floors
5. Every Item of you kit Labelled
6. Rifle Cleaned and disassembled on your bed.
So really not much to do with the word PANIC except that one panics to complete it all in time. Some never sleeped. I never slept for the first 2 weeks of RTU.
The level of Panic in aviation may be relative to the size of the catastrophic event. If the event was too overwhelming. Example loss of Wings in flight , like the C-130 Fire bomber a few years back. God rest their souls.
Regards
Sheep
Regards
Sheep
P.S. IS a Panic is ones quick response to a situation or imimenant dangerous occurence? The response being either not rational or rational
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What I am very interested in, in the "fight or flight" part of the discussion.
Please define that a little better, as in my experience there is no such thing as a (sub)consious choice to either fight OR flee. Fleeing in putting yor head between your shoulders and kissing your behind goodbye.
As a pilot there is no other choice BUT to fight, as ANYTHING else results in disasterous outcomes.
Maybe as the options availabe become slimmer and fewer, then concer might turn into a slight panic-reaction. This doesn't have to mean doing the wrong action necessary
Please define that a little better, as in my experience there is no such thing as a (sub)consious choice to either fight OR flee. Fleeing in putting yor head between your shoulders and kissing your behind goodbye.
As a pilot there is no other choice BUT to fight, as ANYTHING else results in disasterous outcomes.
Maybe as the options availabe become slimmer and fewer, then concer might turn into a slight panic-reaction. This doesn't have to mean doing the wrong action necessary
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The word 'panic' refers to an encounter with the god Pan, doesn't it? A mere human is overwhelmed by the fearfulness of an encounter with such a powerful being: 'panic' fear results.
So you end up 'thirty thousand feet up, nothing on the clock but the maker's name, and that was in Bantu...' but of course none of us ever panic, or if we do we tend to push that memory into the back of the mind.
I sure wouldn't care to share any such moments of my own with someone named Trish who is supposedly working on a PhD. Might turn out to be a reporter for some tabloid; who knows?
I do remember once working with a survivor of a plane crash (when he had been the pilot-in-command). I found that this poor soul was just hanging on by his fingernails so that the first thing that went wrong saw him lose the plot. He would sit there telling me that everything from his end was going fine, but meanwhile that was the airport runway sliding past his side window, the runway we were supposedly lining up to land on.
It seemed pretty obvious that he was so overloaded with fear from his previous crash that he was unable to keep the mental balance necessary to strap an airplane to his ass and go flying. I told him to go get some psychiatric help before he hurt himself, advice he ignored, of course. Hey, he needed to work as a pilot, both for his self-image and for a daily crust. Light aircraft aviation isn't usually equipped to handle this sort of situation.
So you end up 'thirty thousand feet up, nothing on the clock but the maker's name, and that was in Bantu...' but of course none of us ever panic, or if we do we tend to push that memory into the back of the mind.
I sure wouldn't care to share any such moments of my own with someone named Trish who is supposedly working on a PhD. Might turn out to be a reporter for some tabloid; who knows?
I do remember once working with a survivor of a plane crash (when he had been the pilot-in-command). I found that this poor soul was just hanging on by his fingernails so that the first thing that went wrong saw him lose the plot. He would sit there telling me that everything from his end was going fine, but meanwhile that was the airport runway sliding past his side window, the runway we were supposedly lining up to land on.
It seemed pretty obvious that he was so overloaded with fear from his previous crash that he was unable to keep the mental balance necessary to strap an airplane to his ass and go flying. I told him to go get some psychiatric help before he hurt himself, advice he ignored, of course. Hey, he needed to work as a pilot, both for his self-image and for a daily crust. Light aircraft aviation isn't usually equipped to handle this sort of situation.
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Hawker:-
"Fight or flight" refers to a physiological reaction. In an emergency, the human body produces masses of adrenalin. This increases the heart rate, increases the flow of blood to the muscles, and increases the respiration rate. Sweating is also increased, digestion slowed, and sugar is released from the liver.
Basically, the body is preparing itself for violent action, whether to stand up to danger, or do its darnedest to get away from it.
As you may conclude, not a very useful phenomenon for a pilot presented with an in-flight emergency. It's what we're left with from fighting sabre-toothed tigers a few hundreds of thousands of years ago.
It can result in tunnelling of vision, "red mist", systems shutting down, all sorts of things we don't really want when we're supposed to be getting the aircraft, passengers and crew down safely.
But we have to realise it's there, and account for it.
Chuks:- one small, pedantic point - "nothing on the clock but the maker's name" refers to the altimeter. So if you're at FL300, something is mechanically wrong!
"Fight or flight" refers to a physiological reaction. In an emergency, the human body produces masses of adrenalin. This increases the heart rate, increases the flow of blood to the muscles, and increases the respiration rate. Sweating is also increased, digestion slowed, and sugar is released from the liver.
Basically, the body is preparing itself for violent action, whether to stand up to danger, or do its darnedest to get away from it.
As you may conclude, not a very useful phenomenon for a pilot presented with an in-flight emergency. It's what we're left with from fighting sabre-toothed tigers a few hundreds of thousands of years ago.
It can result in tunnelling of vision, "red mist", systems shutting down, all sorts of things we don't really want when we're supposed to be getting the aircraft, passengers and crew down safely.
But we have to realise it's there, and account for it.
Chuks:- one small, pedantic point - "nothing on the clock but the maker's name" refers to the altimeter. So if you're at FL300, something is mechanically wrong!
Mach 3
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Out of interest, our Advanced Manoeuvering Programme on the 737-3/4/5, involves recovery from UA's of 135 AOB and -30/+40 degrees of pitch.
We also practise recovery from two low level upsets one of which includes:
On ILS @ 10nm, 2500', 170kts, flap 5, raise nose to 20 degrees, AOB 135, recover as nose goes through 0 degrees.
FWIW.
We also practise recovery from two low level upsets one of which includes:
On ILS @ 10nm, 2500', 170kts, flap 5, raise nose to 20 degrees, AOB 135, recover as nose goes through 0 degrees.
FWIW.