Captains interfering with the FO's flying
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Hug,
As I mentioned it's all been done. He is renowned amongst the F/Os and most of the captains too. He also has a friend in a VERY high place. Rumour has it that action is planned. I hope so for everyone's sake. In the meantime all you can do is try to keep it safe.
PP
As I mentioned it's all been done. He is renowned amongst the F/Os and most of the captains too. He also has a friend in a VERY high place. Rumour has it that action is planned. I hope so for everyone's sake. In the meantime all you can do is try to keep it safe.
PP
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Pete,
Careful out there - you have effectively 'de-cloaked' and should beware the funny handshakes - a BALly funny lot if you ask me...
With your company, you must be in it for the long haul (as it were). Tread carefully and be like Dad. Keep Mum.
Ten years or thereabouts to wait for the left seat in IT is a long time to fail at the end of. There have been a number of nights of the short knives...
Careful out there - you have effectively 'de-cloaked' and should beware the funny handshakes - a BALly funny lot if you ask me...
With your company, you must be in it for the long haul (as it were). Tread carefully and be like Dad. Keep Mum.
Ten years or thereabouts to wait for the left seat in IT is a long time to fail at the end of. There have been a number of nights of the short knives...
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A long time ago I saved a possible B763 tail-strike on a landing with a pampered Vietnamese Captain. I just put my hand behind the levers to let him know that Vref -7 is not a healthy speed at 100'... Cost me USD 10000 - 10 months delayed command...
But Guys...
1) Da Capt is in Charge
2) If in doubt hav a betta look at the line above
3) If u still in doubt have another look etc.
Ah, by the way he was the Fleet Komisar (dont know how u spell it in eng). No jokes, they still hav them there...
But Guys...
1) Da Capt is in Charge
2) If in doubt hav a betta look at the line above
3) If u still in doubt have another look etc.
Ah, by the way he was the Fleet Komisar (dont know how u spell it in eng). No jokes, they still hav them there...
Very good comments up there, and Plane Jane hit the nail on the head really well. I wonder how such Captains can look forward to going to work or make it to retirement age without health problems.
I just heard about one of our narrowbody (two-person cockpit) Captains here, who constantly reminds (all are very experienced) FOs how to fly the plane, and many are now bidding around any and all flying with the guy, who I do not know. More than a few of our FOs were Captains on this plane ( not to mention beforehand, on Jetstreams, ATRs, SF-340s, CRJ, DC-9, 737, F-100, military S-3s, (E) P-3s, T-37/38, Coast Guard Falcons, C-141s, E-3 AWACS, C-5s....a few also had helo experience) until after 9/11 or even a bit later.
I just heard about one of our narrowbody (two-person cockpit) Captains here, who constantly reminds (all are very experienced) FOs how to fly the plane, and many are now bidding around any and all flying with the guy, who I do not know. More than a few of our FOs were Captains on this plane ( not to mention beforehand, on Jetstreams, ATRs, SF-340s, CRJ, DC-9, 737, F-100, military S-3s, (E) P-3s, T-37/38, Coast Guard Falcons, C-141s, E-3 AWACS, C-5s....a few also had helo experience) until after 9/11 or even a bit later.
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It's a sad fact that what we have here is one of the last great CRM failings of the industry.Every airline has at least one of these pratish characters.Everybody including the management knows who they are.They are very often trainers.A culture develops that "he's not that bad once you get to know him" or "as long as you do things his way he's alright". They become a crewing nightmare as people refuse to fly with them or take sickies.Every now and then they have tea and bickies with the boss and are given a wee half arsed warning.They then revert to type.Meanwhile perfectly good pilots have their careers set back for years and suffer the financial penalty
We are guilty as a group of condoning this as the norm and I cringe when I hear guys apologising for these twits(who are invariably higher payed,older and uglier than them).
Here is the long and short of it.
They are almost always old mates of the boss and at the end of the day, it's just too awkward for him to sack the pilock.Simple as that.
We are guilty as a group of condoning this as the norm and I cringe when I hear guys apologising for these twits(who are invariably higher payed,older and uglier than them).
Here is the long and short of it.
They are almost always old mates of the boss and at the end of the day, it's just too awkward for him to sack the pilock.Simple as that.
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They are very often trainers.........?
Are they now?
Trainers are PAID by the company to train new guys the COMPANY way, like it or not....and many don't, it would appear.
In an airline, you gotta have standards, and trainers/check pilots are there for just that reason (amoung others), to enforce standards.
Otherwise, it can degenerate into rodeo cowboy time....and the picture is sometimes not pretty as a result.
Trainers are PAID by the company to train new guys the COMPANY way, like it or not....and many don't, it would appear.
In an airline, you gotta have standards, and trainers/check pilots are there for just that reason (amoung others), to enforce standards.
Otherwise, it can degenerate into rodeo cowboy time....and the picture is sometimes not pretty as a result.
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sometimes the actions of the crew cannot be viewed in isolation from the corporate culture they happen in.
I am employed as pilot in a charter company. I have completed FSO training and would have been appointed as the FSO, but for the small hiccup of having fallen out of favour with the Director (owner) of the co. Something to do with not keeping my mouth shut re safety issues.Go figure.
Morale, motivation, loyalty are all rock bottom, fairly much non-existent actually. 90% contibuteable (spelling?) to the management style of the owner (divide and rule, treat them like mushrooms) and the other 9% the interaction of the Ops Manager with the crews, swearing at them on the phone, putting the phone down in their ears or actually ignoring them like a piece of furniture if you go to he's office to speak to him.
I have spoken to the Ops Man re one pilot that is regarded by more than one colleague as reckless and dangerous. Got the furniture treatment for my troubles.
Had same conversation with owner, no response at all. Didnt even blink. Cause this pilot in question is one of he's blue eyed boys.......
I am employed as pilot in a charter company. I have completed FSO training and would have been appointed as the FSO, but for the small hiccup of having fallen out of favour with the Director (owner) of the co. Something to do with not keeping my mouth shut re safety issues.Go figure.
Morale, motivation, loyalty are all rock bottom, fairly much non-existent actually. 90% contibuteable (spelling?) to the management style of the owner (divide and rule, treat them like mushrooms) and the other 9% the interaction of the Ops Manager with the crews, swearing at them on the phone, putting the phone down in their ears or actually ignoring them like a piece of furniture if you go to he's office to speak to him.
I have spoken to the Ops Man re one pilot that is regarded by more than one colleague as reckless and dangerous. Got the furniture treatment for my troubles.
Had same conversation with owner, no response at all. Didnt even blink. Cause this pilot in question is one of he's blue eyed boys.......
I'matightbastard
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Captains Ha! Wait till you have the passengers telling you how to fly the damn thing.
In my illustrious career flying jumpers, I've received a lot of airborne advice. One specific character comes to mind who used to lean over and twiddle the power settings. I have to admit though that he did own the aircraft - and he was my mentor and good friend. Still I just put up a sign that said "Operation of the controls from the rear seat is forbidden - THIS MEANS YOU'
Didn't stop him though.
In my illustrious career flying jumpers, I've received a lot of airborne advice. One specific character comes to mind who used to lean over and twiddle the power settings. I have to admit though that he did own the aircraft - and he was my mentor and good friend. Still I just put up a sign that said "Operation of the controls from the rear seat is forbidden - THIS MEANS YOU'
Didn't stop him though.
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Skaz I think yours is a CRM problem that includes the management? You certainly have a problem that needs to be properly addressed and it shouldn't take an accident to do it. In the UK there is a confidential reporting system that is anonymous, does your aviation authority have such a system?
To what extent do captains interfere with your flying?
Onan the Clumsy Not sure how you tackle your problem. Possibly you could point out to him that if any kind of incident should occur, even totally unrelated, after he had touched the controls the witness statements from other passengers might cause your licencing authority to withdraw his licence to operate, either as an owner or a pilot?
To what extent do captains interfere with your flying?
Onan the Clumsy Not sure how you tackle your problem. Possibly you could point out to him that if any kind of incident should occur, even totally unrelated, after he had touched the controls the witness statements from other passengers might cause your licencing authority to withdraw his licence to operate, either as an owner or a pilot?
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Lack of accidents / incidents does not reflect a safe operation, not by a long shot.
In this country I do not believe there is a CHIRP or ASRS in place yet. In RSA there is, but not user friendly. You cant file over the net, you have to post or fax.
Captains interfering.....difficult to answer as we are mostly the same level of experience, 1000tt to 3000tt. Used to have lots of two crew operations but now fewer such ops.
In this country I do not believe there is a CHIRP or ASRS in place yet. In RSA there is, but not user friendly. You cant file over the net, you have to post or fax.
Captains interfering.....difficult to answer as we are mostly the same level of experience, 1000tt to 3000tt. Used to have lots of two crew operations but now fewer such ops.
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Lack of accidents / incidents does not reflect a safe operation, not by a long shot.
Conversely, a safe operation does not mean an operation without safety incidents. What makes the organisation safe is learning from the "near miss" incidents, modifying the system and structures to remove one possibility of an accident in the future - in short, seeing possible problems and being proactive.
There are two types of pilot - those who have had an incident and those who will.
The trick consists in staying as long as possible in the first category and being aware of the dangers, of the safety margins and not eroding those margins without being conscious of them. Therefore, while Onan's friend leaned over and interfered with the power settings, it was not necessarily dangerous in itself. In interfering with Onan's attention (distracting him), in interfering with his situational awareness and in irritating him (adding stress) it was dangerous. All this erodes safety margins. All this therefore increases the danger of the flight.
Here is where most of the problems of the subject of the thread come in.
Increased stress on the PNF (the F/O), decreased situational awareness, increased distraction all erode safety if the Captain is incapable of interfering unnecessarily. If the skipper is not a line trainer, any comments or "helpful pointers" should be saved until the post-flight debrief. Otherwise keep operational in-flight talk to SOP. Personal chit-chat is acceptable within the constraints of the Ops Manual (some say nothing except operational talk below 10,000')
Yes, the Captain is in command. Therefore he should only interfere if safety is compromised or the F/O is departing SOP without pre-briefing it. Otherwise he has no right to meddle unnecessarily and such interference should be reported by one method or another.
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BlueEagle, sir respectfully, I do not agree that the probs in our company are of a CRM nature. Yes, lack of communication is a HUGE contributing factor, but is only one af many bad traits in management.
There has recently been very well known (in the company) incidents where the owner/director has blatantly lied to the crews involved in one specific type operation, and also to the individual appointed as 'Manager' of these operations. We were told one thing, this other guy was told the exact opposite the very next day and we end up butting heads and each party thinks the other is being difficult on purpose. Meanwhile we dont have the same gen!Not only was the crews involved, but the 'new' manager was told he replaced the 'old' one, while neither the crews nor the 'old' manager were told! Imagine the confusion and unco-operativeness pervailing in the ops when two managers give you different instructions and both tell you not to listen to the other....
This problem in one of the Management Culture. Specifically the owner of the company. The Ops Manager follows he's lead and the chief pilot and 'new' manger for specialized ops are both just puppet figures with no real 'weight' in the organization.
Not to mention the fact that we operate without a FSO, no CRM, no DG training, no structured training roster or plan, crews have to pay for their own training, flighttests, a/c hire for the tests, you dont get helped out by Roster when you have to Test.
It is plain dumb luck nobody had been killed yet. oh, dont get me wrong, there have been incidents up the jingjang. One had a big a/c blocking the main rwy for quite a while and other a/c had to divert. Maintenacne I believe....owner saw it happen, turned around and walked off, didnt go check on "he's" crew/pilots, did not as much as even phone to find out if everybody was ok.
This guy is the single most dangerous factor in every aspect of operations/safety etc etc ...nothing can be done, cause he owns the company
There has recently been very well known (in the company) incidents where the owner/director has blatantly lied to the crews involved in one specific type operation, and also to the individual appointed as 'Manager' of these operations. We were told one thing, this other guy was told the exact opposite the very next day and we end up butting heads and each party thinks the other is being difficult on purpose. Meanwhile we dont have the same gen!Not only was the crews involved, but the 'new' manager was told he replaced the 'old' one, while neither the crews nor the 'old' manager were told! Imagine the confusion and unco-operativeness pervailing in the ops when two managers give you different instructions and both tell you not to listen to the other....
This problem in one of the Management Culture. Specifically the owner of the company. The Ops Manager follows he's lead and the chief pilot and 'new' manger for specialized ops are both just puppet figures with no real 'weight' in the organization.
Not to mention the fact that we operate without a FSO, no CRM, no DG training, no structured training roster or plan, crews have to pay for their own training, flighttests, a/c hire for the tests, you dont get helped out by Roster when you have to Test.
It is plain dumb luck nobody had been killed yet. oh, dont get me wrong, there have been incidents up the jingjang. One had a big a/c blocking the main rwy for quite a while and other a/c had to divert. Maintenacne I believe....owner saw it happen, turned around and walked off, didnt go check on "he's" crew/pilots, did not as much as even phone to find out if everybody was ok.
This guy is the single most dangerous factor in every aspect of operations/safety etc etc ...nothing can be done, cause he owns the company
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Yes Skaz, I do agree that you have more than just a CRM problem, (I am inclined to include communications within CRM, by the way), it seems as though you have one real 'cowboy' at the top who should be removed or re-educated by your Aviation Authority, doesn't sound as though that is likely though, does it?
Which only really leaves you with one alternative, possibly not an easy one, but are there any other employers you can go to?
It is good that you air your problems here and maybe some others can offer their thoughts and possible solutions too.
Which only really leaves you with one alternative, possibly not an easy one, but are there any other employers you can go to?
It is good that you air your problems here and maybe some others can offer their thoughts and possible solutions too.
