Language barrier at BOS. Is this really necessary?
Thread Starter
Language barrier at BOS. Is this really necessary?
Hello.
Please be aware that i must emphasize these 2 things.
1) If Mods thinks this thread should go to another room, feel free to move it please.
2) I really dont want to start here any kind of fight pilots vs atc'ers.
However like in many other times in the past, i would love to read your opinions about it please.
In this clip, from yesterday at YT VAS Channel, we can hear a brazilian biz Embraer jet arriving at Boston.
Its a fact we can hear a kind of confused and nervous pilot, augmented with a language barrier, and at the end by a landing gear issue, it seems.
Yes, maybe the first pilot speaking should practise a lil bit its english, some STAR procedures, etc.
However my main question is this one...is really a good practice, is really a good tool, is really necessary when we are experiencing all these "not so good things", to tell the pilot about a "PPD" and asking the guy to took a pen, pencil, etc, and write a phone number..!??
Why do they say this in the middle of the app and not only after a safe landing, lets say for example, on a ground freq...!?
Sometimes the outcome could be very disastrous instead.
I realllly cannot agree with this and i really cannot see anything positive...sometimes in these ocassions telling this to an already confused, nervous and stressed crew has an opposite effect and could lead to a sad accident, my humble 2 cents.
I fully respect ATC, never flown as a pilot in USA, only in Europe & Africa, but being honest i really dont get any point here.
Please be aware that i must emphasize these 2 things.
1) If Mods thinks this thread should go to another room, feel free to move it please.
2) I really dont want to start here any kind of fight pilots vs atc'ers.
However like in many other times in the past, i would love to read your opinions about it please.
In this clip, from yesterday at YT VAS Channel, we can hear a brazilian biz Embraer jet arriving at Boston.
Its a fact we can hear a kind of confused and nervous pilot, augmented with a language barrier, and at the end by a landing gear issue, it seems.
Yes, maybe the first pilot speaking should practise a lil bit its english, some STAR procedures, etc.
However my main question is this one...is really a good practice, is really a good tool, is really necessary when we are experiencing all these "not so good things", to tell the pilot about a "PPD" and asking the guy to took a pen, pencil, etc, and write a phone number..!??
Why do they say this in the middle of the app and not only after a safe landing, lets say for example, on a ground freq...!?
Sometimes the outcome could be very disastrous instead.
I realllly cannot agree with this and i really cannot see anything positive...sometimes in these ocassions telling this to an already confused, nervous and stressed crew has an opposite effect and could lead to a sad accident, my humble 2 cents.
I fully respect ATC, never flown as a pilot in USA, only in Europe & Africa, but being honest i really dont get any point here.
Last edited by JanetFlight; 26th Jul 2021 at 02:50.
S.Pacific tower controller here. When an incident is to be filed, or a "chat" needed with a pilot, it's pretty much SOP for the ground controller to give the crew the phone number to call once on the ground, and maybe even after parking.
Clearly this guy was English as a second language, and it became apparent fairly quickly he wasn't really up with the play, readback failures (particularly in respect of the STAR) were peppered throughout all communications.
Given that, I would have spoken a lot slower, and stuck to very standard R/T.
Saying the same non standard phrase a number of times for emphasis isn't always helpful if it's not understood. I've found this out myself the hard way.
Clearly this guy was English as a second language, and it became apparent fairly quickly he wasn't really up with the play, readback failures (particularly in respect of the STAR) were peppered throughout all communications.
Given that, I would have spoken a lot slower, and stuck to very standard R/T.
Saying the same non standard phrase a number of times for emphasis isn't always helpful if it's not understood. I've found this out myself the hard way.
Couple of things in play here, the Phenom 300 may be flown single pilot which I think may have been the case here since nobody else takes over the radios and the misunderstandings persist.
The decision to fly a trip single pilot or not are to the pilot. Busy Airspace, complex arrivals, anticipating language problems or weather issues…..bringing a second pilot would be prudent.
Secondly, this is a privately owned airplane and possibly owner flown? Which could mean we’re not dealing with somebody who is a career pilot.
Thirdly, the deviation took place in TRACON airspace which for the lack of a better word is a different jurisdiction then TWR.
Now I don’t know the ATC Controllers Handbook but it I am fairly certain that the deviation needs to be communicated by the ATC controller that has jurisdiction.
Like when you have a pilot deviation enroute you get the phone # of and by the enroute facility and not by by a tower controller maybe hours later.
As a final remark, the controller could have anticipated problems a little better, the foreign call sign is a bit of a giveaway as well as the subsequent hesitant answers.
So I’m going with 90% pilot and 10% ATC
The decision to fly a trip single pilot or not are to the pilot. Busy Airspace, complex arrivals, anticipating language problems or weather issues…..bringing a second pilot would be prudent.
Secondly, this is a privately owned airplane and possibly owner flown? Which could mean we’re not dealing with somebody who is a career pilot.
Thirdly, the deviation took place in TRACON airspace which for the lack of a better word is a different jurisdiction then TWR.
Now I don’t know the ATC Controllers Handbook but it I am fairly certain that the deviation needs to be communicated by the ATC controller that has jurisdiction.
Like when you have a pilot deviation enroute you get the phone # of and by the enroute facility and not by by a tower controller maybe hours later.
As a final remark, the controller could have anticipated problems a little better, the foreign call sign is a bit of a giveaway as well as the subsequent hesitant answers.
So I’m going with 90% pilot and 10% ATC
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I understand the sympathy for the pilot, but he clearly deviated from the STAR, was unable to maintain an assigned altitude, and was confused about an assigned heading. In short, he was unable to fly his aircraft to private pilot standards. So is that the controller’s responsibility to correct? In practice, Boston controllers are extremely professional, and generally courteous. Had this happened at JFK the reception would have been much more hostile. If this guy had tried flying to Chicago I’m not sure how this would have ended. It leaves questions about the pilot’s judgement. I thought the controller displayed lots of patience. The notification of a potential pilot deviation may have been necessary due to the sheer number of deviations that were occurring.
