Mobile Phone rules??

[happyone]

I've already posted this on another forum, then found this one...sorry if not appropriate. OK. Returning to LHR on a flight with Air Malta last week, we were taxying after touch-down and had to halt to allow 5 or 6 other aircraft to take off (we were taxying across their runway). During this halt, 4 gentlemen (in the seats next to me)powered up their mobile phones and started 'phoning home'... When we had safely stopped at the sky steps, I informed the gentleman beside me that it was NOT permitted to use mobiles until safely stopped and the engines (aircraft) turned off. Am I correct? What surprised me was, this gentleman said that they HAD asked a crew member whether they could use their mobiles and he told them to go ahead!!! I must say, I'm pretty certain that the announcement at the start of the flight (safety) not to use during take off or landing was not made. Can someone advise on this one? I'm not flight crew, so please excuse the terminology I've used if incorrect.

Thanks

Happyone (but not on this flight)!!!!!

[Captain Stable]

Happy, different companies have different rules.

• While the engines are running
• While the doors are shut
• While the aircraft is airborne
• etc.

Perhaps it is time for a little standardisation.

[Cathar]

The CAA advice is that operators should implement procedures to ensure that all portable telephones are switched off prior to engine start on departure, and remain switched off until the engines are shut down after arrival. See

http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/aic/4P196.PDF

Obviously this advice only applies to UK airlines.

[john_tullamarine]

Although outside my areas of engineering expertise, there were several useful editorial articles in Avionics Magazine relating to the problems of cell phones ... both on the ground for the network and the myriad of problems in an aircraft. Email if you would like a scanned copy ..

[TopSwiss 737]

Apparently, the radiation emitted by a mobile phone (depending of course where it is located in the aircraft) can cause the outflow valve to open on the B737... The pressurization controller isn't very well shielded from electromagnetic radiation...

Read some articles about research done on this subject. Seem to remember that they DID find that mobiles can cause severe interference to aircraft systems, but they had trouble to reproduce the effects. Location apparently has a great influence; 30cm more left/right could change the effects completely.

[Cathar]

Further info on the issue at:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Fodc19-01.pdf

[5711N0205W]

Updated Link

Sorry Cathar think your link is now out of date, try this one instead

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD200119.pdf

[Cathar]

5711

You're right, sorry about that. The link worked on Sunday and it led to the same document as your link so the CAA must be reorganising their indexing.

[flyby_kiwi]

So what sort of implications can be expected in light GA aircraft - I myself have never noticed any.

[TheDrop]

Flybykiwi,

GSMs can interfere with your coms and navs. A GSM phone in your flight bag is not good if you shoot an approach in minimum weather. And in can block your radio so you cannot hear ATC.

[Pandora]

Not related to aviation but definitely related to mobile phones. Mr Pandora did a bit of work for a well known petrol company. They require phones to be switched off on the storage plant and at petrol stations because in the last year or so they have had 3 explosions (didn;t say how big, obviously not big enough to make it to the news) that could only be traced to mobile phone interference.

[Captain Stable]

Kiwi, in Europe and, I suspect, NZ, it is illegal to use a phone whilst airborne. There are, as has been pointed out, many cases of interference which, whilst the case is not proven, provide very convincing circumstantial evidence pointing to interference with aircraft systems, but also there are implications for the integrity of the phone network.

[Pegasus77]

In Germany it is prohibited to use a mobile phone on board at all, even during boarding.

Difficulties arise when passengers, who just came from another (say American) carrier, don't understand this is law in Germany and start making a fuss about it.

Indeed, time to standardize.

P77

[Arcturus]

Use of mobile phones appears to be permitted under certain circumstances in Aus.
For instance, the Comm Failure procedure specified in a Jepp arrival charts for Adelaide, SA, states:
"IF ABLE CONTACT ADELAIDE APPROACH ON TELEPHONE (08)****-****"
How else could one do this except by mobile phone ?

[BlueEagle]

Arcturas

That could be achieved through ACARS, if your aircraft is so equipped.

[BOAC]

Same in the Thales booklet for Geneva.

[Squawk 8888]

Flyby_kiwi, analogue and tri-mode phones could potentially disrupt the DME and ILS in a lightie, not sure what else. It's not only legal to use them in Canada but is recommended for comms failures. I wouldn't us one without an adapter though; there are units avalable that plug into the phone's headset jack and pipe it through the intercom so you can use it hands-free.

[CRUGERA]

Looked at from the mobile phone network aspects.
When on the ground the cellphone will be able to communicate with say 3 or 4 base stations, and will hunt around looking for the best signal.
In the air the phone will be in range of 30? base stations and will still hunt around for the best signal. This may cause extra work on the network control computers, and if lots of people did this at one time the system would overload, and possibly crash?
I am aware of one person who 3 years ago was cautioned by the mobile phone company after tracking the A1 at 100 plus knots for several miles. I think they used the phrase abusing the system.

[Oktas8]

In New Zealand it is illegal to use cellphones only during IFR flight. VFR flight? - do whatever you like.

"No person may operate any cellphone or other portable electronic device that is designed to transmit electromagnetic energy, on any aircraft while that aircraft is operating under IFR." - Civil Aviation Rule 91.7

However, as far as I know most regional airliners carry a cellphone in the cockpit for emergency use, eg in the event of comms failure or (worse) total avionics failure. Many flight instructors, including myself, do the same. Phones are switched off in flight of course.

O8

[skeet surfer]

CRUG - unlikely to be much of a problem to the mobile phone network if going up the A1 at 100kts.... bear in mind how many people travel up and down motorways at 80/90mph with their phones continually hunting for the best signal.....

The fact that you would be getting more base stations in range at a higher altitude (and therefore overloading the network) is also not relevant, as the aerials have a noticeable downtilt (not much point in transmitting upwards for a mobile network) so an aircraft above 1000' and under 150kts would definitely not create any problems for the network....

A fast jet at 250' could cause problems if Flt Lt 'jump jet' Jones decides to phone a friend............