Pilot over drink/drive limit removed from aircraft
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Two issues
There may well be two clear issues in this thread: fatigue and alcohol.
They even may be inter-linked.
However, one can be easily and cheaply identified and addressed, the other is more amorphous and certainly can not be addressed cheaply.
So which one will get the most news coverage?
They even may be inter-linked.
However, one can be easily and cheaply identified and addressed, the other is more amorphous and certainly can not be addressed cheaply.
So which one will get the most news coverage?
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I believe there was a UK case involving a bloke MSNing all night. He subsequently was sent down after falling asleep at the wheel and crashing onto a trainline. Makes you think.
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We may not all react quite the same way...
A Radio Officer used to get "fighting drunk" after a single, post flight beer. He was quietly apologetic to all, regularly, the following morning.
An elderly Steward, off duty, returned to our Hotel, saying " Look at thish... Pished on One and Shix " (That was 1/6d... before decimalisation, so some time ago !)
A Radio Officer used to get "fighting drunk" after a single, post flight beer. He was quietly apologetic to all, regularly, the following morning.
An elderly Steward, off duty, returned to our Hotel, saying " Look at thish... Pished on One and Shix " (That was 1/6d... before decimalisation, so some time ago !)
Last edited by Linktrained; 22nd Nov 2014 at 18:07. Reason: post flight
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The above post, while nice and interesting, in a sense highlights what has often been raised as an issue on Pprune. That was then, now is now.
On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men.
On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men.
" ............................On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men."
Well, those are certainly nice attributes to have these days. Back when I was working I was proud to say that I had these qualities myself, except for the "young" part.
But I will add that it was also nice to have someone sitting next to me on the flight deck who could actually FLY. Not every well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young man (or woman) can do that.
Many readers will say, "Yeah........... ain't that the truth". Unfortunately, some readers will say, "What's he talking about?"
Well, those are certainly nice attributes to have these days. Back when I was working I was proud to say that I had these qualities myself, except for the "young" part.
But I will add that it was also nice to have someone sitting next to me on the flight deck who could actually FLY. Not every well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young man (or woman) can do that.
Many readers will say, "Yeah........... ain't that the truth". Unfortunately, some readers will say, "What's he talking about?"
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Shark
That's what it was meant to be.
BTW, 'Radio Officer ... post flight', 'elderly Steward ... off duty.'
True. The first clue is in Linktrained's username.
Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?
Edit
Mozella
To be fair to Shark, he said earlier in the thread that he is interested in aviation but is not a pilot.
The above post, while nice and interesting
BTW, 'Radio Officer ... post flight', 'elderly Steward ... off duty.'
That was then, now is now.
On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men.
Edit
Mozella
To be fair to Shark, he said earlier in the thread that he is interested in aviation but is not a pilot.
I believe there was a UK case involving a bloke MSNing all night. He subsequently was sent down after falling asleep at the wheel and crashing onto a trainline. Makes you think.
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FL- I certainly hope I did not sound condescending to Linktrained.
I was trying to make the point that times have probably changed over the last three decades: from smoking, to drink driving, to celebrities abusing their fame.
I appreciate there is more to flying than turning a computer on or off at the correct times.
With regard to experience, am I right in thinking the Air France difficulties were exacerbated by a relatively inexperienced pilot clinging to the stick throughout?
And a captain Sullenberger said, of another incident:"One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."
I was trying to make the point that times have probably changed over the last three decades: from smoking, to drink driving, to celebrities abusing their fame.
I appreciate there is more to flying than turning a computer on or off at the correct times.
With regard to experience, am I right in thinking the Air France difficulties were exacerbated by a relatively inexperienced pilot clinging to the stick throughout?
And a captain Sullenberger said, of another incident:"One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."
Last edited by sharksandwich; 27th Nov 2014 at 08:42.
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I had wondered if breathalisers, had they been around, would have shown " fighting drunk" after one beer - then.
The "elderly steward" ( now he would be called "young" by me !) would have had 15 shillings daily as his Overseas Allowance, plus his hotel accommodation paid for. Most UK citizens did not go abroad due to Exchange Control regulations, then.
( For me, in a very slightly earlier life, His Majesty paid £1 daily, with "all found" . Shops were bare, Meals out, could not cost more than 5 shillings for two courses. My 3 day's pay could buy me one hour's flying instruction from the Chief Test Pilot of the nearest manufacturer. A start..?)
I had wondered if breathalisers, had they been around, would have shown " fighting drunk" after one beer - then.
The "elderly steward" ( now he would be called "young" by me !) would have had 15 shillings daily as his Overseas Allowance, plus his hotel accommodation paid for. Most UK citizens did not go abroad due to Exchange Control regulations, then.
( For me, in a very slightly earlier life, His Majesty paid £1 daily, with "all found" . Shops were bare, Meals out, could not cost more than 5 shillings for two courses. My 3 day's pay could buy me one hour's flying instruction from the Chief Test Pilot of the nearest manufacturer. A start..?)
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That was then, now is now.
On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men.
Smug little twenty year old nerd
Computer savvy, my foot. You can teach monkeys to press buttons.
On the flight deck now we want extremely well-trained, computer savvy, sober and professional young men.
Smug little twenty year old nerd
Computer savvy, my foot. You can teach monkeys to press buttons.
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Well said Dodger. It was what most of us were thinking. LINKTRAINED, at the age of 87, should be allowed to say whatever he wants on any thread on any forum. In fact, Mods will probably smile and allow him to do so. Now, searching for me Bus Pass and I am off to swop stories with Linktrained, although, I rather fancy just listening.
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It does not matter how computer savvy a pilot is, it is all out the window when the state of the art system goes down. The whole reliance on technology breeds a bunch of pilots who have no idea how to handle the aircraft when his triple backup computers go down as has been seen by accidents over the recent past when either onboard systems or ground aids have failed. Pilots today seem not to be trained to use the Mk1 eyeball and certainly are not able of managing the "there I was upside down with nothing on the clock but the makers name" situation.
Being an expert computer geek will never make a good pilot, you need much more than that. I had the wish to be the next Biggles when I got my PPL but soon decided that I did not have that special something that would make a good pilot. I have still had over 40 years in the industry and enjoyed every minute.
Being an expert computer geek will never make a good pilot, you need much more than that. I had the wish to be the next Biggles when I got my PPL but soon decided that I did not have that special something that would make a good pilot. I have still had over 40 years in the industry and enjoyed every minute.
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I agree
I agree, I said:I appreciate there is more to flying than turning a computer on or off at the correct times.
With regard to experience, am I right in thinking the Air France difficulties were exacerbated by a relatively inexperienced pilot clinging to the stick throughout?
And a captain Sullenberger said, of another incident: "One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."
With regard to experience, am I right in thinking the Air France difficulties were exacerbated by a relatively inexperienced pilot clinging to the stick throughout?
And a captain Sullenberger said, of another incident: "One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."
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sharksandwich,
Kindly go away and read (and re-read) those reports that FL has taken the trouble to link you to.
Then, and only then, come back and let us have your considered opinion.
Remember... "The wise old owl, he sat on the oak and the more he heard, the less he spoke".
Kindly go away and read (and re-read) those reports that FL has taken the trouble to link you to.
Then, and only then, come back and let us have your considered opinion.
Remember... "The wise old owl, he sat on the oak and the more he heard, the less he spoke".
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Thanks FL and stanwell, but I am too long in the tooth to allow facts to colour my opinions.
Also, I would not at all be surprised that the day will come when pilotless planes become the norm, at least for transport (look at Amazon plans for drones, although obviously a smaller scale at present).
No problem with a computer being "under the weather" so to speak!
Also, I would not at all be surprised that the day will come when pilotless planes become the norm, at least for transport (look at Amazon plans for drones, although obviously a smaller scale at present).
No problem with a computer being "under the weather" so to speak!
look at Amazon plans for drones, although obviously a smaller scale at present
No problem with a computer being "under the weather" so to speak!
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