What do you think is the greatest hazard?
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What do you think is the greatest hazard?
To get a ball rolling on BIG safety issues, can I ask this of fellow PPRuNErs?
What do you perceive to be the greatest hazard you encounter in day-to-day operations, and (briefly) why? Try not to be overly specific please - let's discuss hazard areas rather than specifics.......
What do you perceive to be the greatest hazard you encounter in day-to-day operations, and (briefly) why? Try not to be overly specific please - let's discuss hazard areas rather than specifics.......
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Boredom - not in flight as I do UK regional of less than an hour sector length; but by being stuck in some poxy regional airport hotel for the morning or the rest of the day. Also a 2 3/4 hour turnaround (fortunatly only 1 a week).
I know it's not a direct safety issue to the flight deck, but it reflects on quality of life and state of mind that does reflect in the flight deck.
I know it's not a direct safety issue to the flight deck, but it reflects on quality of life and state of mind that does reflect in the flight deck.
Fatigue. Turns the best aviator into a potential incident. CAP371 is in need of re-working in my very humble opinion.
WWW
WWW
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The attitude that, if something has not been a factor in an incident so far, it will not in the future and can therefore be disregarded.
This leads to erosion of safety margins for all sorts of reasons.
As Towers points out, short-termism in management can do this vary rapidly. Most of us have seen it in effect. We see over-fast taxying to cut down turnaround times, we see reduction of fuel margins, we see pressure on pilots to launch when not satisfied with the weather conditions, etc. etc.
As WWW points out, fatigue. What if your airline hasn't had an incident in living memory through pilot fatigue? Does this mean that it's safe to reduce minimum rest requirements? Of course it doesn't.
Touch&Go points out crew meals. Can these be safely degraded in availability, quality etc.? I would suggest not. If you want a machine to work well, you oil it. Dehydration can very rapidly lead to fatigue and stress. Reducing quality of diet leads to medical problems. Pilots work some very odd hours. Any diet needs to be consistent. It is not enough for airlines to assume that pilots are eating well at home, therefore need not have care taken of their diet when at work. They can't nip out of the office the same as any office worker.
All the factors that others mention such as weather, maintenance, etc. etc., are not accident causes in my view. They are the trigger functions that allow an accident that has been waiting to happen finally to arrive.
In a good safety culture, such trigger actions don't cause an accident.
This leads to erosion of safety margins for all sorts of reasons.
As Towers points out, short-termism in management can do this vary rapidly. Most of us have seen it in effect. We see over-fast taxying to cut down turnaround times, we see reduction of fuel margins, we see pressure on pilots to launch when not satisfied with the weather conditions, etc. etc.
As WWW points out, fatigue. What if your airline hasn't had an incident in living memory through pilot fatigue? Does this mean that it's safe to reduce minimum rest requirements? Of course it doesn't.
Touch&Go points out crew meals. Can these be safely degraded in availability, quality etc.? I would suggest not. If you want a machine to work well, you oil it. Dehydration can very rapidly lead to fatigue and stress. Reducing quality of diet leads to medical problems. Pilots work some very odd hours. Any diet needs to be consistent. It is not enough for airlines to assume that pilots are eating well at home, therefore need not have care taken of their diet when at work. They can't nip out of the office the same as any office worker.
All the factors that others mention such as weather, maintenance, etc. etc., are not accident causes in my view. They are the trigger functions that allow an accident that has been waiting to happen finally to arrive.
In a good safety culture, such trigger actions don't cause an accident.
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Excellent thread on a superb new forum, and already generating extremely high quality posts. Congratulations Danny for having the foresight to add this forum to pprune.
As a safety manager for an airline I have talked to virtually every type of professional involved in the civil aviation process, including engineers, baggage handlers, refuellers, caterers, pilots, cabin crew, security officers, air traffic controllers and tug-drivers. In my opinion the biggest barriers to improving safety within aviation are the ones we all create by not communicating with each other openly and honestly. These barriers are ignorance, mistrust and misunderstanding.
Aviation safety, both in the air and on the ground, would be greatly improved if there was regular interaction and honest, frank communication between the different groups of people who all come together to make it happen. We can all learn something about safety by seeing aviation opertion from the other persons viewpoint. The greatest allies of safety are humility and the willingness to learn.
Keep up the good work Danny and all you other fine people who make pprune tick!
As a safety manager for an airline I have talked to virtually every type of professional involved in the civil aviation process, including engineers, baggage handlers, refuellers, caterers, pilots, cabin crew, security officers, air traffic controllers and tug-drivers. In my opinion the biggest barriers to improving safety within aviation are the ones we all create by not communicating with each other openly and honestly. These barriers are ignorance, mistrust and misunderstanding.
Aviation safety, both in the air and on the ground, would be greatly improved if there was regular interaction and honest, frank communication between the different groups of people who all come together to make it happen. We can all learn something about safety by seeing aviation opertion from the other persons viewpoint. The greatest allies of safety are humility and the willingness to learn.
Keep up the good work Danny and all you other fine people who make pprune tick!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Inadequately trained trainers.
No formal training for line training captains.
No study guides for FO's under training.
ie poor or no transfer of satisfactory information to enable the crew to fully appreciate the operation or the aircraft.
No formal training for line training captains.
No study guides for FO's under training.
ie poor or no transfer of satisfactory information to enable the crew to fully appreciate the operation or the aircraft.
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Weather related problems.
I've certainly felt most stress when operating in really strong winds. Flying into areas such as the Mid West USA where microburst phenomena are commonly encountered can also be hazardous, as can the big storms found in the tropics and especially the Far East.
Icing still seems to be a problem with smaller aircraft, whilst reducd visibilty procedures and equipment have improved a lot over the years.
Yes, my vote goes for that awful moment when go around power is on, and you still desending!
I've certainly felt most stress when operating in really strong winds. Flying into areas such as the Mid West USA where microburst phenomena are commonly encountered can also be hazardous, as can the big storms found in the tropics and especially the Far East.
Icing still seems to be a problem with smaller aircraft, whilst reducd visibilty procedures and equipment have improved a lot over the years.
Yes, my vote goes for that awful moment when go around power is on, and you still desending!
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errors in databases
The greatest hazard in aviation to day is errors in various databases in GPS and FMS systems.
Often you dont realize until very late in the process of using it.
Especially when the error is in a SID or STAR.
The biggest problem is that there is no official place to report it
I have tried several times to report this kind of errors to
the CAA
the database supplier (Jeppesen)
the hardware supplier.
Nothing is done to correct these errors.
Is a malfunction happens to an ILS or VOR station it will appear imidiately in a NOTAM in order to warn everybody.
But a database error which is often harder to detect is not reported in the NOTAM.
Often you dont realize until very late in the process of using it.
Especially when the error is in a SID or STAR.
The biggest problem is that there is no official place to report it
I have tried several times to report this kind of errors to
the CAA
the database supplier (Jeppesen)
the hardware supplier.
Nothing is done to correct these errors.
Is a malfunction happens to an ILS or VOR station it will appear imidiately in a NOTAM in order to warn everybody.
But a database error which is often harder to detect is not reported in the NOTAM.
Moderator
We can all go on at considerable length listing examples ...
Could I raise the thought that, as well as offering examples, we could venture into a more controversial arena and discuss useful ways of either getting rid of a problem or, at least, reducing its insidious consequences ?
One of the advantages of this sort of forum, as opposed to a specialist venue .. is that the guys and gals at the end of the problem chain .. who get to see the effects of such problems day in and day out .... and are often able to see simple workarounds or solutions which are effective and safe ... can have their say on the matter ...
Could I raise the thought that, as well as offering examples, we could venture into a more controversial arena and discuss useful ways of either getting rid of a problem or, at least, reducing its insidious consequences ?
One of the advantages of this sort of forum, as opposed to a specialist venue .. is that the guys and gals at the end of the problem chain .. who get to see the effects of such problems day in and day out .... and are often able to see simple workarounds or solutions which are effective and safe ... can have their say on the matter ...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
No worries John
Some possible solutions to the hassles I raised.
Management/owners of companies ought to realise that well trained individuals and clear, readily available ops manuals are a good safety net to their operation.
In many smaller operations, safety and training seems to be at logger heads with the "operation". It takes a strong person to stand up to "commercial pressures" and demand good training takes place. Funnily enough, it is often easier to train someone correctly than it is to retrain them.... Let alone cheaper.
Good clear concise ops manuals that are distributed to the crew can go a long way in alleviating the SOP hassles that can arise. If the crew know and understand the SOPs and more importantly, see the upper level/management pilots following them, then they are more likely to obey the book too.
It takes a long time to write them however, the difference to the operation is chalk and cheese.
The ops manual has to be approved by the CAA (or any other regulatory body) and thus you can't be in "trouble" for following it.
eg, a cyclone/extreme wx is approaching the base. What do you do? It is far better to have this scenario thought out prior to the event. Scrambing during the event is often too late.
Management/owners of companies ought to realise that well trained individuals and clear, readily available ops manuals are a good safety net to their operation.
In many smaller operations, safety and training seems to be at logger heads with the "operation". It takes a strong person to stand up to "commercial pressures" and demand good training takes place. Funnily enough, it is often easier to train someone correctly than it is to retrain them.... Let alone cheaper.
Good clear concise ops manuals that are distributed to the crew can go a long way in alleviating the SOP hassles that can arise. If the crew know and understand the SOPs and more importantly, see the upper level/management pilots following them, then they are more likely to obey the book too.
It takes a long time to write them however, the difference to the operation is chalk and cheese.
The ops manual has to be approved by the CAA (or any other regulatory body) and thus you can't be in "trouble" for following it.
eg, a cyclone/extreme wx is approaching the base. What do you do? It is far better to have this scenario thought out prior to the event. Scrambing during the event is often too late.
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Two that are close to my heart!!!
- Management cutting back and shaving costs!!
- Captains and In-charge crew members that are deemed unapproachable or unchallengeable by their co-pilots or crew, therefore human error (or the possibility of it) goes unchecked or unchallenged.
- Captains and In-charge crew members that are deemed unapproachable or unchallengeable by their co-pilots or crew, therefore human error (or the possibility of it) goes unchecked or unchallenged.