Eng Fire on the ground...procedure steps?
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Eng Fire on the ground...procedure steps?
Hello,
Before start reading, please note that I'm still a cadet pilot so please don't get angry if I ask stupid questions.
So, maybe it's a stupid question but try to figure out this situation:
You are flying a multi-engine acft, you are speeding up down the runway on your take off run.
You get an ENG FIRE warning before V1, so you reject the take-off.
Well, the question is: Once i'm stop on the runway, should I work before the Evacuation checklist (and evacuate the passengers) or should I work for first the ENG FIRE (on the ground) Checklist?
In my opinion I should first give the order to evacuate the aircraft from the non-burning side, work the evacuation checklist and just once the passenger evacuation has been initiated, work the checklist related to the fire condition, but i can be wrong!
So, what's the correct actions sequence for you?
Thank you for answering and again please don't get angry if it's a stupid question.
Before start reading, please note that I'm still a cadet pilot so please don't get angry if I ask stupid questions.
So, maybe it's a stupid question but try to figure out this situation:
You are flying a multi-engine acft, you are speeding up down the runway on your take off run.
You get an ENG FIRE warning before V1, so you reject the take-off.
Well, the question is: Once i'm stop on the runway, should I work before the Evacuation checklist (and evacuate the passengers) or should I work for first the ENG FIRE (on the ground) Checklist?
In my opinion I should first give the order to evacuate the aircraft from the non-burning side, work the evacuation checklist and just once the passenger evacuation has been initiated, work the checklist related to the fire condition, but i can be wrong!
So, what's the correct actions sequence for you?
Thank you for answering and again please don't get angry if it's a stupid question.
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This is not professional advice, and I do not know the correct procedure.
Parking so that the wind doesn't blow the fire into the rest of the aircraft, then I suppose you have to decide whether it is best to attempt to put out the fire, with pax onboard (bearing in mind that firetrucks will be scrambling out anyway) or to get everyone off, and away from the aircraft, and let the firecrews do their job, follow fire chklst, and bail out the windows/slides.
Parking so that the wind doesn't blow the fire into the rest of the aircraft, then I suppose you have to decide whether it is best to attempt to put out the fire, with pax onboard (bearing in mind that firetrucks will be scrambling out anyway) or to get everyone off, and away from the aircraft, and let the firecrews do their job, follow fire chklst, and bail out the windows/slides.
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Engine Fire checklist first.
Most memory items require 2 bottles with time in between during which you can gather information (CC, ATC, look out of window, fire service, tec.) and decide on course of action.
By the time you have gathered info you will know how severe the fire is and whether the bottle has put it out so you can decide whether to evacuate or not.
Most memory items require 2 bottles with time in between during which you can gather information (CC, ATC, look out of window, fire service, tec.) and decide on course of action.
By the time you have gathered info you will know how severe the fire is and whether the bottle has put it out so you can decide whether to evacuate or not.
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Agree with Winston.
If time and situation permits, park the aircraft in a position that will not result in the rest of the aircraft being in flames.
Definitely run to Engine Fire checklist first to contain the problem. Then assess the situation. An engine fire alone does not warrant an emergency evacuation. Plus, running the memory items could possibly eliminate the fire and therefore the time critical emergency.
Not an expert...just my opinion.
If time and situation permits, park the aircraft in a position that will not result in the rest of the aircraft being in flames.
Definitely run to Engine Fire checklist first to contain the problem. Then assess the situation. An engine fire alone does not warrant an emergency evacuation. Plus, running the memory items could possibly eliminate the fire and therefore the time critical emergency.
Not an expert...just my opinion.
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Refer to your Operator / Regulator / Type manuals as to what "requires" an Evacuation.
Ours say something like "a confirmed unextinquished Fire". If this is the case:
NoD
Ours say something like "a confirmed unextinquished Fire". If this is the case:
- You need to "confirm" the fire e.g. via the window / ATC / other aircraft etc. - not just believe the warning (it may be false, or a minor fire near the detector)
- You need to carry out a reasonable attempt to extinquish it
NoD
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Yeah, I also thought that I would have to refer to my company SOP...but you know, since I'm a cadet i still don't have real SOPs other than follow procedures in the Training Manual of my FTO!
So I asked it here.
As i told, don't gen angry
So I asked it here.
As i told, don't gen angry
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You should always take time to assess the situation no matter what is happening. Don't just start shouting evacuate until you have a grasp of what is happening.
You mention that you would tell the pax to evacuate as soon as you stop. Well that is just madness. For a start the fire warning might just be a faulty fire detection system and as such there actually is no fire! Even if there is a real fire then you will most likely still have a running engine on the side that doesn't have the fire! You tell people to evacuate then they are going to be sucked into the engine/run into a spinning prop.
You don't mention if this is multicrew or not. If so then one of you will be doing the engine fire checklist whilst the other is trying to get more information (this can come from anywhere! Cabin crew who can see the engine, ATC, other aircraft taxing near you etc) As for whether to turn the aircraft or not there is no right answer. Most people I have spoken to are split down the middle. Some say turn, some say don't. I personally agree with the KISS philosophy! (Keep It Simple Stupid!) Turning whilst stopping is just adding to your work load in an already busy situation. I say stop the a/c ASAP, and assess. Then act on the information.
Once it has been established that the fire isn't contained then you head off into the evacuation checklist. Some of the actions will most likely have been done (like pressing the relevant fire buttons and agents) but the most important thing is that the OTHER engine, as well as the engine on fire (it may well still be spinning even with a fire) will both be shutdown and will allow a safe evacuation.
As always every situation is different but the phases of how you deal with it should always be the same. In my opinion there is ALWAYS time to just pause for a couple of seconds to assess the situation and take in what information you can. Don't rush into an action that may well be wrong.
You mention that you would tell the pax to evacuate as soon as you stop. Well that is just madness. For a start the fire warning might just be a faulty fire detection system and as such there actually is no fire! Even if there is a real fire then you will most likely still have a running engine on the side that doesn't have the fire! You tell people to evacuate then they are going to be sucked into the engine/run into a spinning prop.
You don't mention if this is multicrew or not. If so then one of you will be doing the engine fire checklist whilst the other is trying to get more information (this can come from anywhere! Cabin crew who can see the engine, ATC, other aircraft taxing near you etc) As for whether to turn the aircraft or not there is no right answer. Most people I have spoken to are split down the middle. Some say turn, some say don't. I personally agree with the KISS philosophy! (Keep It Simple Stupid!) Turning whilst stopping is just adding to your work load in an already busy situation. I say stop the a/c ASAP, and assess. Then act on the information.
Once it has been established that the fire isn't contained then you head off into the evacuation checklist. Some of the actions will most likely have been done (like pressing the relevant fire buttons and agents) but the most important thing is that the OTHER engine, as well as the engine on fire (it may well still be spinning even with a fire) will both be shutdown and will allow a safe evacuation.
As always every situation is different but the phases of how you deal with it should always be the same. In my opinion there is ALWAYS time to just pause for a couple of seconds to assess the situation and take in what information you can. Don't rush into an action that may well be wrong.
