CRMI under EASA
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
CRMI under EASA
From the CAA's quick guide toNew European pilot licensing regulations:
" It should be noted that the CRMI is introduced by the EASA operations regulation. It is not within the EASA aiurcrew regulation and so cannot be added to a part FCL licence"
Does anyone know what this means in practical terms for existing CRMI? Do we carry on as we were, do we no longer exist, or do we have to requalify somehow under EASA operations rules? I tried a search under EASA - CRMI online, but I cant find anytrhing specifically relevant.
" It should be noted that the CRMI is introduced by the EASA operations regulation. It is not within the EASA aiurcrew regulation and so cannot be added to a part FCL licence"
Does anyone know what this means in practical terms for existing CRMI? Do we carry on as we were, do we no longer exist, or do we have to requalify somehow under EASA operations rules? I tried a search under EASA - CRMI online, but I cant find anytrhing specifically relevant.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: South West UK
This question is currently occupying my mind at work; there is no CRMI in EASA-FCL so it is not a licence rating and will not appear in a part FCL licence. So, who teaches CRM? It looks like CRM training is mandated in part OPS so the associated instructors will be qualified under some associated requirement, what? Who knows!
The CAA have submitted Stan Doc 29 to EASA as a proposed AMC but I doubt there is much chance of it being accepted by a majority of EASA countries so we wait for news ....
The CAA have submitted Stan Doc 29 to EASA as a proposed AMC but I doubt there is much chance of it being accepted by a majority of EASA countries so we wait for news ....
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From: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
The response from CAA is as follows - it looks like no change in the near future from the UK point of view.
"Under EASA there will be no legal framework for a UK CAA specific rating to be added (i.e.CRMI Ground) however it needs to be mentioned the rules associated with EASA cover both licensing (Part FCL) and operations (Part ORO). The Part FCL requirements for CRM Instruction are contained within the requirements for a TRE or TRI (and the Class equivalent). For Part ORO the requirements for CRM ground Instructors states the Instructor shall be suitably qualified – this statement remains a challenge and it is assumed AMC material associated with this statement will be developed to offer clarification. This is future thinking
The present position is, whilst EU-OPS remains the law, the CRMI system associated with the CAA accreditation scheme remains in place (this is for CRMI Ground associated with EU-OPS). It is expected the CAA will maintain regulatory oversight associated with EU-OPS for at least 2 years after the introduction of Part ORO"
"Under EASA there will be no legal framework for a UK CAA specific rating to be added (i.e.CRMI Ground) however it needs to be mentioned the rules associated with EASA cover both licensing (Part FCL) and operations (Part ORO). The Part FCL requirements for CRM Instruction are contained within the requirements for a TRE or TRI (and the Class equivalent). For Part ORO the requirements for CRM ground Instructors states the Instructor shall be suitably qualified – this statement remains a challenge and it is assumed AMC material associated with this statement will be developed to offer clarification. This is future thinking
The present position is, whilst EU-OPS remains the law, the CRMI system associated with the CAA accreditation scheme remains in place (this is for CRMI Ground associated with EU-OPS). It is expected the CAA will maintain regulatory oversight associated with EU-OPS for at least 2 years after the introduction of Part ORO"
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: South West UK
Hmmmm.....
The CAA may wish to retain regulatory oversight under EU-OPS for up to two years but, if EASA ORO which will be the law contains a conflicting system which is advantageous to our operation the CAA will have some hard questions to answer. As I said - it's a shambles!
3 Point!
The CAA may wish to retain regulatory oversight under EU-OPS for up to two years but, if EASA ORO which will be the law contains a conflicting system which is advantageous to our operation the CAA will have some hard questions to answer. As I said - it's a shambles!
3 Point!
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From: On the green bit near the blue wobbly stuff
My thoughts are that any new EASA system is very unlikely to be more stringent than the current UK system (given that it has been fairly non-existent up until now under JAA) Therefore, it is very unlikely that any new system is going to be "advantageous" for UK instructors. If anything any new system will probably continue to be a fudge to allow the current Europeanl instructors who do not necessarily have any formal qualification to continue doing what they are doing now.
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Most authorities will just authorise on production of any CRMI course cert with no course approval inspection.
Also as well there are a lot of authorities which allow CRM training to be done by CBT by the likes of scandilearn and ignore the requirement for a classroom facilitation element.
Also as well there are a lot of authorities which allow CRM training to be done by CBT by the likes of scandilearn and ignore the requirement for a classroom facilitation element.
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From: I would like to know
AMC1 ORO.FC.115&215 Crew resource management (CRM) training
(2) The CRM trainer should:
(i) possess group facilitation skills;
(ii) have and maintain adequate knowledge of the operation and the Aircraft type, preferably through current CAT experience as a flight crew member;
(iii) have successfully passed the human performance and limitations (HPL) examination whilst recently obtaining the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) in accordance with Regulation (EU) No 1178/20119; or followed a theoretical HPL course covering the whole syllabus of the HPL examination;
(iv) have completed initial CRM training;
(v) have received additional education in the fields of group management, group dynamics and personal awareness; and
(vi) be supervised by suitably qualified CRM training personnel when conducting his/her first initial CRM training session.
AMC1.1 ORO.FC.115&.215 Crew resource management (CRM) training
CRM TRAINER
The acceptable means of compliance are as set out in AMC1 ORO.FC.115&.215, except for (b)(2) of that AMC, for which the following qualifications and experience are also acceptable for a CRM trainer:
(a) a flight crew member holding a recent qualification as a CRM trainer may continue to be a CRM trainer even after the cessation of active flying duties;
(b) an experienced non-flight crew CRM trainer having a knowledge of HPL; and
(c) a former flight crew member having knowledge of HPL may become a CRM trainer if he/she maintains adequate knowledge of the operation and aircraft type and meets the provisions of AMC1 ORO.FC.115&.215, (b)(2)(i), (iv), (v) and (vi)
(i) possess group facilitation skills;
(ii) have and maintain adequate knowledge of the operation and the Aircraft type, preferably through current CAT experience as a flight crew member;
(iii) have successfully passed the human performance and limitations (HPL) examination whilst recently obtaining the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) in accordance with Regulation (EU) No 1178/20119; or followed a theoretical HPL course covering the whole syllabus of the HPL examination;
(iv) have completed initial CRM training;
(v) have received additional education in the fields of group management, group dynamics and personal awareness; and
(vi) be supervised by suitably qualified CRM training personnel when conducting his/her first initial CRM training session.
AMC1.1 ORO.FC.115&.215 Crew resource management (CRM) training
CRM TRAINER
The acceptable means of compliance are as set out in AMC1 ORO.FC.115&.215, except for (b)(2) of that AMC, for which the following qualifications and experience are also acceptable for a CRM trainer:
(a) a flight crew member holding a recent qualification as a CRM trainer may continue to be a CRM trainer even after the cessation of active flying duties;
(b) an experienced non-flight crew CRM trainer having a knowledge of HPL; and
(c) a former flight crew member having knowledge of HPL may become a CRM trainer if he/she maintains adequate knowledge of the operation and aircraft type and meets the provisions of AMC1 ORO.FC.115&.215, (b)(2)(i), (iv), (v) and (vi)
