Command authority
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Command authority
To what extent is the captain free to invent his or her own procedures, do his or her own thing?
CHIRP says - and without citing an authority, implies that this is understood and accepted - that the aeroplane isn't "the captain's" - it's "the company's" - and the captain has authority delegated to him or her via the ops manual. Where the captain deviates from the ops manual, the company has the right to hold him or her to account: "It's my aeroplane" is not a reasonable defence.
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The scope of a captain's authority for the operation of an aircraft is quite clear. In normal operations it requires compliance with company Standard Operating Procedures. It is only when the safety of the aircraft and passengers would otherwise be at risk that a captain may elect to ignore SOPs; however, in such a case, the captain must be prepared subsequently to justify his/her actions.
From CHIRP
From CHIRP
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CHIRP says - and without citing an authority, implies that this is understood and accepted - that the aeroplane isn't "the captain's" - it's "the company's" - and the captain has authority delegated to him or her via the ops manual
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That's the way I understand it!
The company pays the pay check, they get the right to say how their aeroplane is to be operated. In unexpected and emergency situations outside the scope of the manual the Commander uses his experience and training to fix the problem but would certainly be expected to be able to justify what he decided to do.
The company pays the pay check, they get the right to say how their aeroplane is to be operated. In unexpected and emergency situations outside the scope of the manual the Commander uses his experience and training to fix the problem but would certainly be expected to be able to justify what he decided to do.
CHIRP are correct. You can operate outside SOP's to achieve a safe outcome.
However, you cannot operate outside SOP's to achieve a commercial outcome.
The subtlety of that distinction is lost on some operators.
However, you cannot operate outside SOP's to achieve a commercial outcome.
The subtlety of that distinction is lost on some operators.
But clearly, for some individuals, it needs to be "re-iterated".
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"ITS MY AIRPLANE"
No its not.Unless you paid for it yourself.
EXAMPLE
A new PIC (DEC) joined our company.He has 26000 hours including 5000 PIC on type.Worked for only one coy for 43 years (he was 64 at the time).Im the IP in the right seat just going through the motions of signing him off mainly getting him used to our SOPs.Upon leaving the runway, im awaiting his command to conduct the after landing items, but im not allowed to do this until he stows the speedbrake to indicate that we are now in taxi mode and have moved on from the landing mode (Boeing FCTM).This action never happens, and after a long taxy with lights blazing, flaps down, etc etc I give him a friendly "prompt" that the after landing procedure should be actioned now?.A very terse reply of "dont touch anything, its not safe", screams out from the left seat.OK.Upon giving him a debrief and asking nicely for his reason for the non-standard actions, he tells me."Its my airplane, im PIC.If I deem it unsafe for you to go heads down while taxying, not watching for traffic etc etc, YOU WILL FOLLOW MY COMMAND".
He is now advised that he cant invent his own SOPs and on his line check the next day, he will be expected to follow the comany SOPs, by lowering the speedbrake at the end of the landing roll, unless there is sufficient reason not to.(contamination or very dense traffic would be acceptable reasons, but these were not present on either sectors).
The following day he did the same thing.The very next day he was terminated due to willful non-compliance with SOPs, and of that particular story.......Pete the pirate.
EXAMPLE
A new PIC (DEC) joined our company.He has 26000 hours including 5000 PIC on type.Worked for only one coy for 43 years (he was 64 at the time).Im the IP in the right seat just going through the motions of signing him off mainly getting him used to our SOPs.Upon leaving the runway, im awaiting his command to conduct the after landing items, but im not allowed to do this until he stows the speedbrake to indicate that we are now in taxi mode and have moved on from the landing mode (Boeing FCTM).This action never happens, and after a long taxy with lights blazing, flaps down, etc etc I give him a friendly "prompt" that the after landing procedure should be actioned now?.A very terse reply of "dont touch anything, its not safe", screams out from the left seat.OK.Upon giving him a debrief and asking nicely for his reason for the non-standard actions, he tells me."Its my airplane, im PIC.If I deem it unsafe for you to go heads down while taxying, not watching for traffic etc etc, YOU WILL FOLLOW MY COMMAND".
He is now advised that he cant invent his own SOPs and on his line check the next day, he will be expected to follow the comany SOPs, by lowering the speedbrake at the end of the landing roll, unless there is sufficient reason not to.(contamination or very dense traffic would be acceptable reasons, but these were not present on either sectors).
The following day he did the same thing.The very next day he was terminated due to willful non-compliance with SOPs, and of that particular story.......Pete the pirate.
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Thanks for that, Pirate - and for being part of stopping first officers subsequently being pushed into awkward situations.
But there are many skippers who will behave themselves when being trained - we're a cunning bunch, us pilots ....
But there are many skippers who will behave themselves when being trained - we're a cunning bunch, us pilots ....
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its really quite simple.
Follow the rules (regulations, sop et. al) and be safe...
BUT
if the rules don't work and you aren't safe, do what you think is best to the extent neccessary to keep everyone safe.
we call it: the emergency authority of the pilot in command
Follow the rules (regulations, sop et. al) and be safe...
BUT
if the rules don't work and you aren't safe, do what you think is best to the extent neccessary to keep everyone safe.
we call it: the emergency authority of the pilot in command
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This emergency authority comes from a level higher than the company....higher than the authority that gives the company its AOC.
This is enshrined in international as well as national law.If a Captain uses this authority and gets it badly wrong...or (other side of the coin) an F/O were to contravine this authority and hull loss or similar occured you can expect to be looking down the barrel of a jail term.
It is normally a good thing for an F/O to know the routine SOPs inside out and advocate correct adherence.
On the other hand if you have an extreme emergency and the skipper uses his experience/ local knowledge etc (which is what he is really paid for) there is not likely to be time to debate it. The stats show that whilst these kind of immediate decisions may be less than perfect... the outcomes are more often than not ultimately satisfactory.
There is a whole load of science behind this (search schemers) etc which proves the experience debate.
The mistake that is often made (at the risk of insulting intelligence) is that because he cant use the FMC as well as you / knows the exact words your company likes to use he will get it wrong when the book has to go out of the window. As an F/O with a Captain who has become incompetent through age / attitude or should never have been promoted in the first place this becomes difficult. It can normally be managed but its a tough one.
This is enshrined in international as well as national law.If a Captain uses this authority and gets it badly wrong...or (other side of the coin) an F/O were to contravine this authority and hull loss or similar occured you can expect to be looking down the barrel of a jail term.
It is normally a good thing for an F/O to know the routine SOPs inside out and advocate correct adherence.
On the other hand if you have an extreme emergency and the skipper uses his experience/ local knowledge etc (which is what he is really paid for) there is not likely to be time to debate it. The stats show that whilst these kind of immediate decisions may be less than perfect... the outcomes are more often than not ultimately satisfactory.
There is a whole load of science behind this (search schemers) etc which proves the experience debate.
The mistake that is often made (at the risk of insulting intelligence) is that because he cant use the FMC as well as you / knows the exact words your company likes to use he will get it wrong when the book has to go out of the window. As an F/O with a Captain who has become incompetent through age / attitude or should never have been promoted in the first place this becomes difficult. It can normally be managed but its a tough one.
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"ITS MY AIRPLANE"
No its not.Unless you paid for it yourself.
No its not.Unless you paid for it yourself.
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actually it is my airplane...(using slang).
IF the company didn't want me to take it, they would not release it from the gate.
IF the company told me to fly the plane 20,000 lbs over gross weight I will say no.
so...who's plane is it?
and I've seen instructor pilots screw up really badly, so there are cases where a captain can delay the after landing checklist by his command.
I remember one Instructor pilot...who wasn't acting as instructor, just acting as captain to get his flight pay and landings in. We got our clearance at the gate, at least 20 minutes before pushback.
So, he taxis out and takes (i;m not kidding you) 5 minutes in the runup area (jet) checking his charts. both engines running...tower calling: are you ready?
instructors at airlines are frequently good old boys, golf buddies and the like.
another instructor used speed brakes on a plane with limitations against it with flaps down.
so...it goes like this...ITs my plane if you let me leave the gate with it.
I'll bring it back in good condition...but don't ask me to cheat or cover for marginal instructor/check pilots. remember that jet blue nut case...he was a check pilot!
IF the company didn't want me to take it, they would not release it from the gate.
IF the company told me to fly the plane 20,000 lbs over gross weight I will say no.
so...who's plane is it?
and I've seen instructor pilots screw up really badly, so there are cases where a captain can delay the after landing checklist by his command.
I remember one Instructor pilot...who wasn't acting as instructor, just acting as captain to get his flight pay and landings in. We got our clearance at the gate, at least 20 minutes before pushback.
So, he taxis out and takes (i;m not kidding you) 5 minutes in the runup area (jet) checking his charts. both engines running...tower calling: are you ready?
instructors at airlines are frequently good old boys, golf buddies and the like.
another instructor used speed brakes on a plane with limitations against it with flaps down.
so...it goes like this...ITs my plane if you let me leave the gate with it.
I'll bring it back in good condition...but don't ask me to cheat or cover for marginal instructor/check pilots. remember that jet blue nut case...he was a check pilot!
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Nobody has ever doubted the authority of the captain to act in the event of an "extreme emergency" to save the aircraft, or save lives. The point being that this doesn't extend to the freedom to disregard the ops manual in normal operation.
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YP - The problem is there is an increasing number of F/Os who have a "challenge everything" mentallity and don't buy into the Captain's authority full stop. There are also many situational examples which are not as clear cut as the "extreme emergency" where you have to follow the skippers lead. Our book ,for example, says before V1 we should reject for a predictive windshear alert. If this happens on a FLL runway just before V1 on a day where it is clear that it is spurious thedecision will be to continue. Not what the book says.... but the right thing to do. He/she is paid for judgement in the shade of grey areas.
To what extent is the captain free to invent his or her own procedures, do his or her own thing?
In their eyes, a good FO is supposed to sit their, be quiet, and go along with them with whatever they do.
Any comments, remarks, advice, criticism, suggestions are firmly rebuffed.
Three little words: Crew Resource Management.
If the FOs behave like that then it reflkects badly on the Captain and he should be demoted.
If the FOs behave like that then it reflkects badly on the Captain and he should be demoted.
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what is a "FLL" runway? in you mind sir? we have an airport known as FLL here in the states
anyhow, predicitive windshear abort...interesting question to be sure...
it is my view that many of these non SOP procedures and decisions would be better addressed by the COMPANy revisiting its procedures.
anyhow, predicitive windshear abort...interesting question to be sure...
it is my view that many of these non SOP procedures and decisions would be better addressed by the COMPANy revisiting its procedures.
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The problem is there is an increasing number of F/Os who have a "challenge everything" mentality and don't buy into the Captain's authority full stop.
Shell Management - You are talking tosh.
John Citizen - Suggest you change your employer and leave the cowboy outfit you are currently with.