IFR Decisions?
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: India
Age: 40
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IFR Decisions?
Dear Friends,
Below are a few situations, request your valid inputs.
1) You're on vacation and scheduled to return to work next day for an important meeting. A slow moving warm front sits over your entire route, & there are multiple PIREP's of moderate icing. Weather is expected to continue through
the next 24 hours. Your light twin has pitot heat, but no other de icing protection. Airports along the route are at or above minimums.
2) On a climb out IFR cross country, your attitude ind fails. You have already picked up your clearance, and you are in solid IFR conditions.
3) You're one hour from your destination, cruising between layers. You notice that Low Voltage light on the panel is illuminated, but you are not sure how long it has been on.
4) During second ILS approach attempt you see Approach lights at decision height. As you descend, they disappear behind a patch of Fog.
5) After a lengthy hold, you begin an approach to your destination, and visibility is reported right at minimums. At MDA you cant c the runway. You execute missed approach and calculate that you no longer have enough fuel to fly to your filed alternate.
6) Controller issues you an immediate descent to the initial approach fix altitude at your destination. you know that you are still over an area of mountainous terrain, and the descent may take you below min safe altitude for the area. The frequency is congested and you unable to contact the controller.
Appreciate your thoughts & help me learn some thing each day.
Regards,
Leraning to Fly.
Below are a few situations, request your valid inputs.
1) You're on vacation and scheduled to return to work next day for an important meeting. A slow moving warm front sits over your entire route, & there are multiple PIREP's of moderate icing. Weather is expected to continue through
the next 24 hours. Your light twin has pitot heat, but no other de icing protection. Airports along the route are at or above minimums.
2) On a climb out IFR cross country, your attitude ind fails. You have already picked up your clearance, and you are in solid IFR conditions.
3) You're one hour from your destination, cruising between layers. You notice that Low Voltage light on the panel is illuminated, but you are not sure how long it has been on.
4) During second ILS approach attempt you see Approach lights at decision height. As you descend, they disappear behind a patch of Fog.
5) After a lengthy hold, you begin an approach to your destination, and visibility is reported right at minimums. At MDA you cant c the runway. You execute missed approach and calculate that you no longer have enough fuel to fly to your filed alternate.
6) Controller issues you an immediate descent to the initial approach fix altitude at your destination. you know that you are still over an area of mountainous terrain, and the descent may take you below min safe altitude for the area. The frequency is congested and you unable to contact the controller.
Appreciate your thoughts & help me learn some thing each day.
Regards,
Leraning to Fly.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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This is called an 'own goal'. It is implied that the icing conditions exist yet the person still went flying. The rest is just a mess. My only hope would be that when the prat flying this plane crashes, they don't take anyone else with them. But it would be nice to have the ID of this aircraft so we could put a few pennies on it crashing at Paddy Power.
There is very little to be learnt from an idiot flying when they shouldn't be in an aircraft operating beyond its limits who has poor situational awareness. So I'd ignore the question.
PM
There is very little to be learnt from an idiot flying when they shouldn't be in an aircraft operating beyond its limits who has poor situational awareness. So I'd ignore the question.
PM
Join Date: Jan 2006
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No.1 deserves no answer, or as Piltdown Man put it.
No. 2 vector to VMC. If impossible, vector for an IAP. Turn coordinator & directional gyro for bank and altimeter & VSI for pitch. I bet it's harder to accomplish in real IMC than under the "hood" as is always practiced during flight training.
No. 3, reset alternator, check CB, reset once if popped. If not successful, vector to nearest suitable aerodrome. Be aware you may run out of power completely, thus no navaids. If you can reach VMC and land, go for that.
No. 4, if you can't maintain visual from DA/MDA you go around.
No. 5, you have painted yourself into a corner and left no way out? Sounds like the same nut job as in No. 1. You shouldn't be there in the first place. To answer the question, what better alternative do you have than try the same approach again?? Declare an emergency and hope for the best.
No. 6, if I am unsure about my terrain clearance I would query ATC before doing something stupid, e.g. asking for Minimum Vector Altitude.
No. 2 vector to VMC. If impossible, vector for an IAP. Turn coordinator & directional gyro for bank and altimeter & VSI for pitch. I bet it's harder to accomplish in real IMC than under the "hood" as is always practiced during flight training.
No. 3, reset alternator, check CB, reset once if popped. If not successful, vector to nearest suitable aerodrome. Be aware you may run out of power completely, thus no navaids. If you can reach VMC and land, go for that.
No. 4, if you can't maintain visual from DA/MDA you go around.
No. 5, you have painted yourself into a corner and left no way out? Sounds like the same nut job as in No. 1. You shouldn't be there in the first place. To answer the question, what better alternative do you have than try the same approach again?? Declare an emergency and hope for the best.
No. 6, if I am unsure about my terrain clearance I would query ATC before doing something stupid, e.g. asking for Minimum Vector Altitude.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Grunching for fun:
1) If you're meeting with a loan shark to pay back a loan, and you need to be there on time or he's going to shoot your dog or worse, you should probably go. But you'd have a better chance of getting there scud-running VFR for 300 miles than trying to fly in icing. If you can't scud run due to terrain, maybe you can make a home-depot run and rig up your own de-ice system. Get some drip-lines, duct tape and some glycol, rig up a venturi on the end to create a vacuum. How much do you care about your dog?
2) Tell ATC and turn around. It's difficult to fly IFR without the HI and AI, and illegal anyway. Also, you'll probably die if your electrics fail, and if you're having a bad enough day it probably will. If you're still worried about your dog though, make up an excuse and see if ATC can get you an altitude out of IMC. If they can't, now is the time to read the manual for your autopilot and find out if it's coupled to your turn coordinator. Set it in NAV mode or whatever and have it follow the GPS or VOR (disclaimer: I don't know how they work, I haven't had an emergency and therefore have never had to read the manual).
3) Recycle the alternator. If that doesn't work do it again. After that tell ATC. Remember that all those dials that tell you how to get to the airport are powered by electricity.
4) Go missed
5) In poker we have a saying:
"Hey limitedslip, I got this problem. So I was at home screwing the cat, and my wife walks in, catching me red-handed, vaseline in one hand, cat in the other. Just disgusting. Now she wants a divorce, and she wants all my money, and the kids. And not only that, she called the cops on me, so I'm probably going to prison for animal cruelty. And I don't know how they treat animal abusers in prison but it can't be good. So what should I do? What would you do?"
"Well, I wouldn't have screwed the cat."
The lesson here, is DON'T SCREW THE CAT. Don't accept a hold without an Expect Further Clearance time, don't sit there and let your fuel run out and then wonder what to do when you're out of fuel.
6) You didn't specify whether you responded to the altitude change request. I'll assume you did, and that you subsequently realized that it would take you into a mountain. You can a) ignore the request and descend once clear of the terrain. The downside here is that your AOPA lawyer might have to explain to the FAA why you didn't descend into a mountain, killing all aboard or b) fly into a mountain, killing all aboard.
Looking forward to more questions.
1) If you're meeting with a loan shark to pay back a loan, and you need to be there on time or he's going to shoot your dog or worse, you should probably go. But you'd have a better chance of getting there scud-running VFR for 300 miles than trying to fly in icing. If you can't scud run due to terrain, maybe you can make a home-depot run and rig up your own de-ice system. Get some drip-lines, duct tape and some glycol, rig up a venturi on the end to create a vacuum. How much do you care about your dog?
2) Tell ATC and turn around. It's difficult to fly IFR without the HI and AI, and illegal anyway. Also, you'll probably die if your electrics fail, and if you're having a bad enough day it probably will. If you're still worried about your dog though, make up an excuse and see if ATC can get you an altitude out of IMC. If they can't, now is the time to read the manual for your autopilot and find out if it's coupled to your turn coordinator. Set it in NAV mode or whatever and have it follow the GPS or VOR (disclaimer: I don't know how they work, I haven't had an emergency and therefore have never had to read the manual).
3) Recycle the alternator. If that doesn't work do it again. After that tell ATC. Remember that all those dials that tell you how to get to the airport are powered by electricity.
4) Go missed
5) In poker we have a saying:
"Hey limitedslip, I got this problem. So I was at home screwing the cat, and my wife walks in, catching me red-handed, vaseline in one hand, cat in the other. Just disgusting. Now she wants a divorce, and she wants all my money, and the kids. And not only that, she called the cops on me, so I'm probably going to prison for animal cruelty. And I don't know how they treat animal abusers in prison but it can't be good. So what should I do? What would you do?"
"Well, I wouldn't have screwed the cat."
The lesson here, is DON'T SCREW THE CAT. Don't accept a hold without an Expect Further Clearance time, don't sit there and let your fuel run out and then wonder what to do when you're out of fuel.
6) You didn't specify whether you responded to the altitude change request. I'll assume you did, and that you subsequently realized that it would take you into a mountain. You can a) ignore the request and descend once clear of the terrain. The downside here is that your AOPA lawyer might have to explain to the FAA why you didn't descend into a mountain, killing all aboard or b) fly into a mountain, killing all aboard.
Looking forward to more questions.
