Lengthy landing checklist
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Lengthy landing checklist
Our landing checklist currently has six items on it, I find this to be a bit lengthy and I would like to see the first two items removed from it and placed on below the line on the approach checklist . Checklist items are as follows:
F/A NOTIFICATION
START SWITCHES
LANDING GEAR
SPEEDBRAKE
FLAPS
MISSED APPROACH ALTITUDE
ANYONE IN AGREEMENT WITH ME.
WHAT ITEMS DO YOU ALL HAVE ON YOUR LANDING CHECKLIST?.
F/A NOTIFICATION
START SWITCHES
LANDING GEAR
SPEEDBRAKE
FLAPS
MISSED APPROACH ALTITUDE
ANYONE IN AGREEMENT WITH ME.
WHAT ITEMS DO YOU ALL HAVE ON YOUR LANDING CHECKLIST?.
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Hey 737-Driver, welcome to PPRUNE!
4 items on our Final-Checklist on the stick (737 Classic):
- Start Switches
- Speed Brake
- Gear
- Flaps
"Cabin Report/ F/A-Notification is included in the Taxi-Checklist prior Takeoff, but not covered in any checklist before landing.
Cheers Flexi
4 items on our Final-Checklist on the stick (737 Classic):
- Start Switches
- Speed Brake
- Gear
- Flaps
"Cabin Report/ F/A-Notification is included in the Taxi-Checklist prior Takeoff, but not covered in any checklist before landing.
Cheers Flexi
The original B737 landing checklist was well thought out. Abeam the touch-down point on the runway the scan followed by the reading of the checklist went something like this: Landing Checks to Flaps
Ignition Switches..Cont.
Speed Brake... armed -green light.
Gear ....down, Three Greens.
Holding at Flaps.
Then on final or where appropriate, the PF would command (say) "Flaps 30 (or 40 as needed) Complete the landing check list."
And all the PNF had to read was the single word "Flaps" and await the reply to his challenge which was "30 Green light."
The important point to note was some of the landing checklist items were completed well before landing leaving the final check of Flaps to be done when the final flap was set.
Then Boeing for some crazy reason associated with either legal issues or standardisation with all the other Boeing types, decided it would be better to run the full before landing checklist when the final flap went down. And so just as the PF was concentrating on final approach stabilisation he would call for final landing flap and then say go ahead with the complete before landing checklist.
So the PF would start with placing the start switches On, arming the speed brake, confirming the landing gear was down, confirming the flaps were set and then pull out the landing checklist and challenge the PF. Of course, the PF by now was heavily involved on instruments if IMC short final and would have to not only double check by looking at each scanned item but also respond to the challenge. All this often below 1000 ft when he was already busy.
The original Boeing SOP of asking the PNF at the appropriate position downwind on mid or long final for "Gear Down, Flap 15 and Landing checklist to Flaps" was designed to avoid a rushed landing check list that is now the characteristic of the "new" landing checklist policy.
For 30 years or more the original 737 before landing checklist design policy had been tried and tested. Then all of a sudden, someone in Boeing says lets change things so all Boeings are standardised with each other. A retrograde step indeed.
Ignition Switches..Cont.
Speed Brake... armed -green light.
Gear ....down, Three Greens.
Holding at Flaps.
Then on final or where appropriate, the PF would command (say) "Flaps 30 (or 40 as needed) Complete the landing check list."
And all the PNF had to read was the single word "Flaps" and await the reply to his challenge which was "30 Green light."
The important point to note was some of the landing checklist items were completed well before landing leaving the final check of Flaps to be done when the final flap was set.
Then Boeing for some crazy reason associated with either legal issues or standardisation with all the other Boeing types, decided it would be better to run the full before landing checklist when the final flap went down. And so just as the PF was concentrating on final approach stabilisation he would call for final landing flap and then say go ahead with the complete before landing checklist.
So the PF would start with placing the start switches On, arming the speed brake, confirming the landing gear was down, confirming the flaps were set and then pull out the landing checklist and challenge the PF. Of course, the PF by now was heavily involved on instruments if IMC short final and would have to not only double check by looking at each scanned item but also respond to the challenge. All this often below 1000 ft when he was already busy.
The original Boeing SOP of asking the PNF at the appropriate position downwind on mid or long final for "Gear Down, Flap 15 and Landing checklist to Flaps" was designed to avoid a rushed landing check list that is now the characteristic of the "new" landing checklist policy.
For 30 years or more the original 737 before landing checklist design policy had been tried and tested. Then all of a sudden, someone in Boeing says lets change things so all Boeings are standardised with each other. A retrograde step indeed.
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Uncle Boeing's checklist is not a legal document; your company's CAA/FAA approved checklist is, and it may adopt Boeing's with modifications. So talk to your CP or DO regarding your concerns. 
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The original Boeing SOP of asking the PNF at the appropriate position downwind on mid or long final for "Gear Down, Flap 15 and Landing checklist to Flaps" was designed to avoid a rushed landing check list that is now the characteristic of the "new" landing checklist policy.
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As a long time contract pilot I am amazed at the lengths that many operators go to on their checklist items.
I am on a short duty assignment at Sri Lankan Airlines and I kid you not that we have 3 ckecklist challange and response items for the bloody TCAS.
"TCAS auto"
"TCAS 7343 auto"
"TCAS TA/RA"
This is just one example of the the many antiquated procedures that they have here. It is so out of hand that it is a distraction from performing your duties. What about the golden 3 aviate navigate communicate? I have F/O's starting and asking for checklists even before I ask. Like I forgot or something. "Captain after landing check? Hey friend why don't you get us a taxi clearance to keep us rolling"
Ok I feel better now I think.
I am on a short duty assignment at Sri Lankan Airlines and I kid you not that we have 3 ckecklist challange and response items for the bloody TCAS.
"TCAS auto"
"TCAS 7343 auto"
"TCAS TA/RA"
This is just one example of the the many antiquated procedures that they have here. It is so out of hand that it is a distraction from performing your duties. What about the golden 3 aviate navigate communicate? I have F/O's starting and asking for checklists even before I ask. Like I forgot or something. "Captain after landing check? Hey friend why don't you get us a taxi clearance to keep us rolling"
Ok I feel better now I think.
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Not really relevant to the question asked, but my BE76 Duchess has nine (9) items on the climb checklist, five (5) items on descent and eight (8) on approach checklist. Sometimes it feels the easiest thing is to make something easy seem difficult, and the hardest things is to make something hard seem easy.
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but my BE76 Duchess has nine (9) items on the climb checklist, five (5) items on descent and eight (8) on approach checklist.
I doubt it. Seems more like the local CFI of your flying school has his own pet checklists and incorporates them in the flying school operations manual. Sometimes you even have the local CAA flight operations inspector making a name for himself by "advising" the CFI that "the CAA" wants more items to be listed than the manufacturer's lists.
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Our landing checklist consists of three items:
Signs.................on
Landing gear.......down
Flaps.................(position)
Landing checklist complete
Embraer 190
We have very few and short checklists: before and after start checklists, take off checklist, landing checklist and parking as well as leaving airplane (both read and do) checklists.
Signs.................on
Landing gear.......down
Flaps.................(position)
Landing checklist complete
Embraer 190
We have very few and short checklists: before and after start checklists, take off checklist, landing checklist and parking as well as leaving airplane (both read and do) checklists.
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Our current landing checklist has nearly the same items as the OPs,
cabin report
start switches
speed brake
landing gear
flaps
Only the last two have to be answered by the pilot flying, the other ones are in the area of responsibility of the pilot monitoring. The checklist has to be completed above 1000ft, otherwise it is a mandatory go around. To construct a stabilization problem out of answering one more challenge than the old checklist seems to point at a lack of basic flying skill or rather bad training.
@FlightPathOBN, is flaps 15 a normal landing flap setting for your operation? It is not currently approved as such in JAR-land, only flaps 30 or 40 are approved for normal operation, flaps 15 only for non normal config and even there it is replaced by flaps 30 for the normal one engine out case now (to enable one engine out CAT IIIa autoland).
cabin report
start switches
speed brake
landing gear
flaps
Only the last two have to be answered by the pilot flying, the other ones are in the area of responsibility of the pilot monitoring. The checklist has to be completed above 1000ft, otherwise it is a mandatory go around. To construct a stabilization problem out of answering one more challenge than the old checklist seems to point at a lack of basic flying skill or rather bad training.
@FlightPathOBN, is flaps 15 a normal landing flap setting for your operation? It is not currently approved as such in JAR-land, only flaps 30 or 40 are approved for normal operation, flaps 15 only for non normal config and even there it is replaced by flaps 30 for the normal one engine out case now (to enable one engine out CAT IIIa autoland).
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- Flaps - 50
- Ldg Gear - Down, Indicators Checked
- Nosewheel Steering - Centred
- Ldg Lights Panel - Set
- Hydraulic Panel - Set
- Altimeter/ Stby Altimeter - Set/ Compared
- Seats/ Harnesses - Secure
C130J
So a few more!
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- Altimeter/ Stby Altimeter - Set/ Compared
- Seats/ Harnesses - Secure
DHC-6:
Nose wheel steering - Centred (A bit odd, since that item is checked in the climb checklist)
Propeller lever - Full Increase
Flaps - (Landing flaps)
Current B737 driver:
From your checklist I think "missed approach altitude" could be withdrawn. I consider that a vital part of the approach, such as tuning the proper navaid or setting the right approach course. Unless your operator has had specific problems with that item, I hardly see a reason for it to be on a checklist (BTW, it's the first time I see it that way).
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Are these items published in the BE76 manufacturer's Pilot Information Manual?
It should be completed before top of descent anyway.
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737NG:
Start switches -cont
Recall - checked
Speedbrake - armed green light
Landing gear - down 3 greens
Autobrake - as required
Flaps - 30/40 green light
Landing lights - on
All done from 5/4 miles out to be stabilised and complete to landing lights by 1000' and 500' respectively. Can be interesting if it's a busy approach.
Start switches -cont
Recall - checked
Speedbrake - armed green light
Landing gear - down 3 greens
Autobrake - as required
Flaps - 30/40 green light
Landing lights - on
All done from 5/4 miles out to be stabilised and complete to landing lights by 1000' and 500' respectively. Can be interesting if it's a busy approach.
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FINAL CHECK
PF "Stabilized - final check - three greens"
PNF "Checked - flaps?"
PF "30"
PNF "Checked - final check completed"
IMO - It depends on the aircraft you are flying. I flew ATR's for a living and at the end it came down to the above final check. The aircraft had a very forgiving design which is IMHO the way they should be built. If you ommitted the "condition levers -max" they would advance by themselves when adding power more than a predetermined setting.
It is the old contraptions which require more attention to detail but also there if the sh... hits the fan I would opt for the very short versions of vital items such as gear and correct flaps setting to approach the runway configured and at correct speed.
KISS would be my approach. Vitals only.
PF "Stabilized - final check - three greens"
PNF "Checked - flaps?"
PF "30"
PNF "Checked - final check completed"
IMO - It depends on the aircraft you are flying. I flew ATR's for a living and at the end it came down to the above final check. The aircraft had a very forgiving design which is IMHO the way they should be built. If you ommitted the "condition levers -max" they would advance by themselves when adding power more than a predetermined setting.
It is the old contraptions which require more attention to detail but also there if the sh... hits the fan I would opt for the very short versions of vital items such as gear and correct flaps setting to approach the runway configured and at correct speed.
KISS would be my approach. Vitals only.