Poor Airmanship? Pilots reading non-relevent material in the cockpit during flight.

[IGh]

Lessons Learned from 70-years of subtle INITIAL UPSETS

Statement shown in previous comment:

"... The human brain is capable of processing a whole variety of inputs at the same time while still remaining situationally aware. ... it is important to QUICKLY DO NOTHING. Too many fools start pressing buttons, moving knobs & levers ..."

Could any airline pilot seriously accept such a fool statement?
[Please excuse such a blunt question, but that sort of statement should be identified as contrary to lessons of our industry.]

Have this man stand down, then he should recite the lessons from the Waldo Lynch upset (B707/ 3Feb59 N712PA, over North Atlantic), concerning the distracted- PF's inability to recognize that subtle INITIAL upset.

From a recent, typical, DAC-Pitch/Speed upset, reprinted in the report:

"... It is important that the flight crews recognize an unreliable airspeed condition in a timely fashion, and imperative that their initial action is to maintain aircraft control. Air data and pitot system malfunctions can result in different EIS [electronic instrument system] alerting system displays or erroneous indications depending on the nature of the cause of the malfunction. Not all malfunctions will be readily obvious or result in specific alerts."

Eventually French BEA investigators will recover a DFDR from an A330 (currently beneath the sea) -- and then you AirBus guys will get more lessons -- similar to those lessons Boeing has recorded repeatedly since the 1930's:

Yaw x Roll =DIVE initial-upsets can be very subtle.

Often these "occurrences" are initially an un-notice 1-G event, ask Sam Peters after that 3Feb59 upset -- that he did NOT recognize until nose had sliced to steep NOSE DOWN.

Such subtle UPSET events have been repeated several times each decade.

Mostly, an observant pilot DOES recognize the subtle onset Pitch-Spd, or Yaw x Roll, INITIAL upset: such an observant PF then simply clicks-OFF the Autoflight, and quickly recovers aircraft control [merely a log-book entry later].

On the other hand, each decade, a few pilots fail to recognize the onset of INITIAL upset, and an otherwise easy event progresses into a next interval of sustained uncontrolled flight, and is later cited in TV-news, and requires lengthy "investigation".

[Piltdown Man]

IGh: It is plain to airline pilots that you are not one of us. When you are and when you are able stop posting with your wretched fonts size and colour changes and when you have a valid point you might be taken more seriously. The initial thread was about reading on a flight deck. So pay us all a little more respect and continue along that thread. The modern airliner, in this case the A320, is more than capable of giving enough notice that things are going wrong in the cruise well before any heroic action needs to be taken. So please stop wasting our time with reports from 1959 and get back to your Tellytubbies.

PM

[johns7022]

The next time someone in here want to pontificate on professionalism...let's all take a good hard look at his weight and balance, flight planning, and preflight inspection....his log book, whether he's cheating on his wife, or taxes....maybe take a gander at his resume for inaccuracies...see if he supports putting 200 hr pilots in the right seat..

and if he's squeaky clean, and just sits there and stares at the instruments and scanning 10 degree increments for 8 hours....then he can feel free to come in here and tell me not to read a book up in the cockpit.....

[Chesty Morgan]

Actually John nobody can come on this here thread and tell you not to read a book at work. Regardless of their fidelity, which hasn't got anything to do with it anyway.

However, if your captain doesn't want you to read a book then I suggest that you don't. Not that you should be anyway. Simple as that.

Again, does anybody remember the first rule of airmanship?

[A37575]

And how do you keep yourself ahead of the aircraft if you aint paying attention?

One technique I used was to monitor the progress of the flight by tuning to various on-track and cross-track NDB or VOR's using the RMI needles. This was excellent situational awareness and alleviated the inevitable boredom of glass cockpit operation. It also kept my instrument scan current in case for some reason one had to revert to raw data basic navigation.

[A37575]

when you are able stop posting with your wretched fonts size

He is trying to impress by being the font of all knowledge...

[John Citizen]

One technique I used was to monitor the progress of the flight by tuning to various on-track and cross-track NDB or VOR's using the RMI needles

The Airbus does all this for you, leaving you time to read the paper

[beamer]

It seems obvious that some posters need to get out a little more

[bArt2]

Again, does anybody remember the first rule of airmanship?

Wasn't it "thou shalt not read books"


Or was it "Дисциплина"

[Chesty Morgan]

The Airbus does all this for you, leaving you time to read the paper

And where does your situational awareness come from? The crossword?

bArt2, nope but thanks for trying.

[pilot999]

personally I find a good dose of hardcore porn magazines rather good in flight after this i can assure that my arousal curve is well sorted. especially when flying with female fo's either that or buy the star for 10p, all else fails by the sun for 20p.

[beamer]

Let me get this straight.

Obviously T/O, Ldg, Climb and Descent are no-go areas for anything other than complete attention - right, now lets put that those to one side.

Am I now expected to maintain my 'situational airwareness' by endlessly tuning and identifying navaids, reading 'relevant' material such as aircrew notices, checklists and manuals, getting weather for airfields which I can see from a fifty miles away, endlessly staring into space in the middle of the night which personally sends me straight off to sleep.

There are 'chores' which have to be done - techlog, paperwork for the next sector, ops returns which my company insists on being done both electronically by laptop and by paper as a back up etc. However, to insist that after completion of such tasks, pilots must not read newspapers or books not to mention completing the traditional crossword or new-fangled sudoku, is quite ridiculous. Do the young co-pilots have to sit there listening to old farts rambling on about their vast pensions and three ex-wives for hour after hour ?

I suspect that some of the 'anti-brigade- have never flown longhaul - try your philosophy on a 9-11 sector - you won't be very popular. I suspect that due to your enhanced situational awareness, when a problem actually arises, your hands fly around the panels so quickly that your colleague cannot keep up with your actions - oops, shut down the wrong engine - and yes it has happened !

There is a time and a place, we can all accept that, but some element of common sense and latitude must make for a more pleasant flightdeck.

[Chesty Morgan]

Am I now expected to maintain my 'situational airwareness'

Yes, but reading the Telegraph wont help will it.

endlessly tuning and identifying navaids

Dontcha know they are all automatic these days, giving you more time to monitor.

reading 'relevant' material such as aircrew notices, checklists and manuals

Only if you want, unless you are required to.

getting weather for airfields which I can see from a fifty miles away

Might be nice to know what the weather is like more than 7 minutes before you get there! You know, planning ahead. What about the airfields you can't see?

endlessly staring into space in the middle of the night which personally sends me straight off to sleep

Endlessly? An hour and a half cruise isn't endless. Like I said, longhaul is a different matter.

However, to insist that after completion of such tasks

Are your flying related tasks ever complete whilst you are still airborne?

I suspect that due to your enhanced situational awareness, when a problem actually arises, your hands fly around the panels so quickly that your colleague cannot keep up with your actions

So I am unable to operate properly as part of a two man crew because I have more situational awareness than the bloke reading the paper? What a stupid statement.

Do the young co-pilots have to sit there listening to old farts rambling on about their vast pensions and three ex-wives for hour after hour?

I'm not old. I don't have a pension or three ex-wives. So no you don't

Still, nobody appears to know what the first rule or airmanship is. Come on it aint that hard. It was probably the first thing you learnt on your first day of flying.

[John Citizen]

We have one (not) fine chap who pulls out his latest novel as soon as we get in to the cruise. No courtesy of asking either. I give him a minute or two then I ask him to get the weather for all the enroute divs I fancy. That keeps him busy for a while, then I brief him for a while, then he gets the ATIS etc. then we're at TOD. If he's PF his choice is PF'ing or reading.

Glad I don't fly with you.

So if he wasn't reading, you wouldn't ask anything of him ?

Weather for enroute diversions is not important if he is not reading but is important if he is ? Talk about double standards.

Can't you get it yourself or is it just too hard for you and beyond your ability ?

Yet as soon as he likes to read you like to interfere with him, you disturb him and distract him.

You are the one that's not being courteous I think.

[Chesty Morgan]

So if he wasn't reading, you wouldn't ask anything of him ?

I wouldn't have to because instead of reading he'd be doing what he should anyway.

No I can't get it myself because if I am PF then it is up to PNF to get the weather and other stuff. Just like any other airline. You see we have our own individual jobs to do don't we? And I expect you to do it. If you don't then I'll tell you to. That's my remit as a captain.

Yet as soon as he likes to read you like to interfere with him, you disturb him and distract him.

Ah bless, I'm disturbing his quiet time by asking him to do his job. Shame on me. Why is there? He can read at home can't he?

Glad I don't fly with you.

Oh dear! I'll cope.

[John Citizen]

I wouldn't have to because instead of reading he'd be doing what he should anyway.

What should he be doing ? Can you expect him to read your mind and know everything you want without you asking for it ?

No I can't get it myself because if I am PF then it is up to PNF to get the weather and other stuff. Just like any other airline. You see we have our own individual jobs to do don't we?

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Well that's not how in works in the airline where I work.

Below is an extract from the Airbus QRH regarding Normal procedures in the cruise :

PF :

ECAM MEMO/SYS PAGES.....REVIEW
FLIGHT PROGRESS.....CHECK
FUEL....MONITOR
NAV ACCURACY....CHECK
RADAR TILT...ADJUST
CABIN TEMP.....MONITOR
TCAS.....BLW

PNF :

(BLANK - no specified duties at all !!)

Please note, there are NO specified duties for the PNF in the cruise, this is direct from Airbus themselves !!

Yes,as you say we all have individual jobs, and the PNF has no job at all in the cruise (as per Airbus QRH) !!

Nowhere does it say in our QRH of any of our manuals that :
-PF must request PNF to get the weather
-PF or PNF must get latest weather enroute at all actually
-PNF always gets the weather / PF does not ever

In the airline where I work, if someone wants the latest weather whilst enroute, whether you are Capt. of FO, PF or PNF, you just get it yourself.

Its not that hard actually, just press a few buttons in the MCDU.

Is this really such a big task and distraction for the PF that he (she) can't do it themself ?

Why do you do need to ask someone else to do it for you ?

Its a bit like asking someone to scratch your head because your are too lazy to do it yourself.

[411A]

I'm interested in the general opinion of other pilots regarding the subject of pilots reading non-relevant publications (newspapers, magazines, novels...) during flight. As an Airbus A320 captain myself with over 30 years in military and commercial aviation, I personally find such behaviour extremely non-professional and akin to poor airmanship.

Personally, I find nothing wrong with the practise of reading whilst in cruise flight (climb/descent excluded), in fact, I bring along a selection of magazines for the FD crew, just for this purpose.

Could it be that your time in the military has made a difference?

[John Citizen]

Could it be that your time in the military has made a difference?

I agree, I flew with quite a few other oldies ex military and many seemed to behave exactly the same (fault finding anal control freaks strictly enforcing their own unique procedures and techniques).

Maybe its because they were treated that way by their superiors in the military, and now they have there turn to treat others that way too.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I regularly read newspapers, read FCOM, revise for sims etc during the cruise. In 5 years and a couple of hundred captains I've never come across one who has had a problem with it. If the captain is not reading and we are in the cruise with all tasks complete and conversation dried up I will ask if they mind if I read. Never been a problem. On that basis I would say anyone who thinks we should sit there and monitor for an hour or four is in the minority, a throwback to a less automated age - whatever you choose to describe it. Lots of guys I fly with will also take a nap on a long four sector day if they feel the need. It is an accepted method of fatigue management within the company (ezy). While I agree SA is something that is important during the cruise, I also think it quite possible to maintain awareness and read something other than the PFD.

Again, does anybody remember the first rule of airmanship

The F/O always buys the first round. Everyone knows that.

[choppingmotion]

John,

Isn't the point of the extract you quote from the Airbus QRH (re Cruise responsibilities for PNF) that in effect, both pilots are expected to share equally in the monitoring responsibilities, and that in this regard neither is entirely a passive PNF during cruise?