PPL Inadvertent IMC incident
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PPL Inadvertent IMC incident
Hi there,
Later this week i am delivering a CRM brief. As part of that brief i would like to include a case study on an incident which involved a PPL going inadvertent IMC, thus far from google and the like i have drawn blank so am hoping that the learned members of this forum would perhaps of heard of this and be able to point me in the right direction?
I first heard of it about 4yrs ago (perhaps in pilot mag, i cant recall). Basically a PPL holder was in transit, from Wales to Blackpool i think, and went inadvertent IMC. He had little IF experience, therefore, completely lost all situational awareness. The aircraft performed all kinds of aerobatic manouvre's for several minutes before popping out of cloud at around 500', luckily in enough time for the pilot to correct the attitude and land safely. The pilot recounted this experience in a report to highlight to others the dangers of inadvertent IMC.
I mentioned that the aircraft involved was in transit from Wales to Blackpool. I may be getting slightly confused here with another incident where the pilot was talked down by ATC at an RAF Airbase. I am sure it was one or the other.
Any help that you may be able to offer will be greatly appreciated!!
Many thanks
Rotorman11
Later this week i am delivering a CRM brief. As part of that brief i would like to include a case study on an incident which involved a PPL going inadvertent IMC, thus far from google and the like i have drawn blank so am hoping that the learned members of this forum would perhaps of heard of this and be able to point me in the right direction?
I first heard of it about 4yrs ago (perhaps in pilot mag, i cant recall). Basically a PPL holder was in transit, from Wales to Blackpool i think, and went inadvertent IMC. He had little IF experience, therefore, completely lost all situational awareness. The aircraft performed all kinds of aerobatic manouvre's for several minutes before popping out of cloud at around 500', luckily in enough time for the pilot to correct the attitude and land safely. The pilot recounted this experience in a report to highlight to others the dangers of inadvertent IMC.
I mentioned that the aircraft involved was in transit from Wales to Blackpool. I may be getting slightly confused here with another incident where the pilot was talked down by ATC at an RAF Airbase. I am sure it was one or the other.
Any help that you may be able to offer will be greatly appreciated!!
Many thanks
Rotorman11
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You can generally find them if you search the AAIB website. I suspect you referred to this case:
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
-But I have now reread your post (properly) and suspect possibly not the same.
Air Accidents Investigation: Download PDF document
-But I have now reread your post (properly) and suspect possibly not the same.
Last edited by Evilbob; 27th Apr 2010 at 10:43. Reason: Didn't read before opening mouth.
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Suggest you check out the hampshire crash from about a year ago, AAIB report out now
This appears to be an example of trying to maintain VMC on a day that is not. Ticks all the boxes for me and I have used it to warn others of the perils.
This appears to be an example of trying to maintain VMC on a day that is not. Ticks all the boxes for me and I have used it to warn others of the perils.
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We had an interesting one in Oz. Four youngsters in a 172 on a trip inadvertently went IMC and lost control. Popped out of the cloud base and after regaining control found themselves in a valley with no escape route due to cloud blocking all avenues. Ended up doing a controlled landing into the 150 foot high forest tops, the aircraft ended up on the forest floor and the occupants suffered only minor cuts and bruises. When the weather cleared we sent in a chopper to winch them out. Lucky bunch.
Folks,
CRM or whatever, the most important thing about an unqualified and/or un-current pilot (regardless of nominal license) getting inadvertently into IMC is ---- DON'T.
Particularly in this day and age of MS FlightSim, and just enough "IF training" in the PPL to be dangerous, the propensity for flight into IMC, with subsequent loss of control seems to have increased.
That the weather in AU is generally far more benign than, say, UK, isn't reflected in a reduced percentage of fatal accidents due to loss of control due inadvertent flight into IMC.
In all my years as an abnitio instructor, ALL my students ( contrary to AU regulations) were put in the situation that resulted in them losing control and spiralling or spinning out of cloud ----- pre-briefed, dual with me.
I have never lost a (former) student to a weather accident.
Several have forced landed when they had no way out, but NONE attempted a bit of unqualified IFR to get out of a situation ---- they all remembered just how easy it is to loose control ---- in the real world.
Each one remembered the time to loss of control, from the time from "you have it" ( and start the stopwatch) to bingo.
The average was under 30 sec, several better than average students lasted almost a minute before they lost control.
Tootle pip!!
CRM or whatever, the most important thing about an unqualified and/or un-current pilot (regardless of nominal license) getting inadvertently into IMC is ---- DON'T.
Particularly in this day and age of MS FlightSim, and just enough "IF training" in the PPL to be dangerous, the propensity for flight into IMC, with subsequent loss of control seems to have increased.
That the weather in AU is generally far more benign than, say, UK, isn't reflected in a reduced percentage of fatal accidents due to loss of control due inadvertent flight into IMC.
In all my years as an abnitio instructor, ALL my students ( contrary to AU regulations) were put in the situation that resulted in them losing control and spiralling or spinning out of cloud ----- pre-briefed, dual with me.
I have never lost a (former) student to a weather accident.
Several have forced landed when they had no way out, but NONE attempted a bit of unqualified IFR to get out of a situation ---- they all remembered just how easy it is to loose control ---- in the real world.
Each one remembered the time to loss of control, from the time from "you have it" ( and start the stopwatch) to bingo.
The average was under 30 sec, several better than average students lasted almost a minute before they lost control.
Tootle pip!!
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In all my years as an abnitio instructor, ALL my students ( contrary to AU regulations) were put in the situation that resulted in them losing control and spiralling or spinning out of cloud ----- pre-briefed, dual with me.
I have never lost a (former) student to a weather accident.
I have never lost a (former) student to a weather accident.
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For the life of me I can't see how you can glue CRM and an inadvertent excursion into IMC with an unrated PPL together. A PPL is by definition a single pilot operation. I am convinced that there are numerous smoking holes on the ground but each and every one with a PPL type aircraft is the responsibility of one person, not a crew.
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Ever heard of single-pilot CRM? You can call it Human Factors, Cockpit management, captaincy , common sense, threat and error management - its all part of the same thing, and comes under the "CRM" banner. Dont assume CRM is only about simple crew coordination.
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I can't see how this can be called "inadvertent". That's what the windshield is for.
Years ago the AOPA instigated a 180° "rescue" course - if you were so lacking in awareness as to find yourself in the soup, you at least had the tools to exit the way you came in.
Years ago the AOPA instigated a 180° "rescue" course - if you were so lacking in awareness as to find yourself in the soup, you at least had the tools to exit the way you came in.
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Particularly in this day and age of MS FlightSim, and just enough "IF training" in the PPL to be dangerous, the propensity for flight into IMC, with subsequent loss of control seems to have increased.
