Who Decides
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 304
Likes: 7
From: netherlands
It is always the crew that decides when and where to divert. They may seek advise, time permitting, from ops. Ofcourse you will have to account for your decision afterwards. But if it wasn't really stupid, it will be ok. Companies where ops has the final say are inherently unsafe as they dont have the whole picture.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Northwest England
Thanks for the replies, been involved in a couple of diverts recently into Manchester, there does seem to be a very good system in place for dealing with passengers being transfered onward by road.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
Time/fuel permitting it is always a good idea to discuss the options with company reps as they should have a better picture of facilities/loadings of alternates/crew plans etc and access to more weather info than we have.
As above, however, the final decision is with the 'responsible' person, the Captain. I recall a bright young thing in BA Ops trying to get me to divert a Cat I 737 from a foggy LGW to xxx, when I had in mind yyy. "NO, they said, the weather at xxx is good" and read me the TAF/ACT which were indeed OK. I said "Is there anything else on the met for xxx after what you have read me?". "Oh yes", he said, "It says 'Tempo 400m, OC 100". Guess where I went....
As above, however, the final decision is with the 'responsible' person, the Captain. I recall a bright young thing in BA Ops trying to get me to divert a Cat I 737 from a foggy LGW to xxx, when I had in mind yyy. "NO, they said, the weather at xxx is good" and read me the TAF/ACT which were indeed OK. I said "Is there anything else on the met for xxx after what you have read me?". "Oh yes", he said, "It says 'Tempo 400m, OC 100". Guess where I went....
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
No question about it, it is the aircraft commander. That is what he/she is paid to do, and where the buck stops. That isn't to say that operations may not require a diversion to a particular airport for whatever reason. In such circumstances the commander would be expected to comply unless they had compelling reasons not to. This isn't a case of discussing whims or ego driven decisions, it is about cold hard commercial realities. Those realities would only be superceded by serious safety considerations, and it is up to the commander to decide as and when that is the case.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 1
From: AEP
Who decides, finally???
No doubt, it is the captain - but of course consider the circumstances.
In an emergency, or a condition that could lead to an emergency, definitely the captain decides.
But in other circumstanes, let the company decide.
xxx
Examples -
Engine failure after V1, continuing the takeoff (in a twin engine aircraft) you come back to airport.
Or to an approved alternate (FAA says within 60 minutes of single engine cruise).
If you fly a 3 or 4 engines aircraft, company might have other ideas. Captain has final decision.
With PanAm, as an example, LAX to LHR with a 747, company could have decided to go to JFK.
Then a spare airplane would have taken passengers to LHR.
Unlike a Speedbird deciding to continue on 3 engines out of SFO to LHR...!
xxx
Safety consideration come first, then $$$/currency you use.
Dumping tons of fuel in the ocean makes seafood taste bad in your dish.
xxx
Destination alternates (below visibility minimums) are often up to company.
Coming from South America to MAD below minimums, you better go to BCN.
Better connections (air or ground) for passengers.
If not, consider landing in LPA and... wait until weather gets better.
Again, captain decides with company's agreement and suggestions.
xxx
I remember flying to JFK many times, marginal weather, EWR was alternate, with PHL or BOS available.
Well, the idiots decided for EWR, also going below minimums, same as JFK.
My "real alternate" for JFK was ALWAYS Newburg, NY. Always was clear when JFK/EWR went down.
The problem was US Customs/Immigration. Plan to keep pax aboard for 2-3 hours.
Made the Greyhound buses happy to bring the people back to JFK.
Apparently, Greyhound monitored ATIS with buses ready to fetch passengers around.
For LAX, ONT was best, but consider LGB or PMD.
xxx
There are so many scenarios to consider.
So yes, captains decide, but in many circumstances, unless dire emergency, let the guys on ground decide.
For you guys in UK, you got enough airports to handle a 737 size plane. Plenty of runways in Europe as well.
xxx
Happy contrails
In an emergency, or a condition that could lead to an emergency, definitely the captain decides.
But in other circumstanes, let the company decide.
xxx
Examples -
Engine failure after V1, continuing the takeoff (in a twin engine aircraft) you come back to airport.
Or to an approved alternate (FAA says within 60 minutes of single engine cruise).
If you fly a 3 or 4 engines aircraft, company might have other ideas. Captain has final decision.
With PanAm, as an example, LAX to LHR with a 747, company could have decided to go to JFK.
Then a spare airplane would have taken passengers to LHR.
Unlike a Speedbird deciding to continue on 3 engines out of SFO to LHR...!
xxx
Safety consideration come first, then $$$/currency you use.
Dumping tons of fuel in the ocean makes seafood taste bad in your dish.
xxx
Destination alternates (below visibility minimums) are often up to company.
Coming from South America to MAD below minimums, you better go to BCN.
Better connections (air or ground) for passengers.
If not, consider landing in LPA and... wait until weather gets better.
Again, captain decides with company's agreement and suggestions.
xxx
I remember flying to JFK many times, marginal weather, EWR was alternate, with PHL or BOS available.
Well, the idiots decided for EWR, also going below minimums, same as JFK.
My "real alternate" for JFK was ALWAYS Newburg, NY. Always was clear when JFK/EWR went down.
The problem was US Customs/Immigration. Plan to keep pax aboard for 2-3 hours.
Made the Greyhound buses happy to bring the people back to JFK.
Apparently, Greyhound monitored ATIS with buses ready to fetch passengers around.
For LAX, ONT was best, but consider LGB or PMD.
xxx
There are so many scenarios to consider.
So yes, captains decide, but in many circumstances, unless dire emergency, let the guys on ground decide.
For you guys in UK, you got enough airports to handle a 737 size plane. Plenty of runways in Europe as well.
xxx
Happy contrails
