Hurry Up Syndrome
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Hurry Up Syndrome
Does anybody have suggestions / examples / statistics / scenarios for an oral presentation about this topic? A good report about a mishap as a result to perceived or actual time pressure (other than the classical Pan Am / KLM accident in Tenerife Norte in '77) would do as well.
Many thanks in advance!
Many thanks in advance!
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Try the flight safety foundation website, look through back issues of "Accident Prevention" journal. They have an easily-readable analysis of many incidents over the past decade or two.
Otherwise, I would suggest American Airlines 1420 at Little Rock 1999. There is a National Geographic "Crash Investigation" video on this one too, which is quite usable.
Otherwise, I would suggest American Airlines 1420 at Little Rock 1999. There is a National Geographic "Crash Investigation" video on this one too, which is quite usable.
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There was a serious incident to a Ryanair a few years back - I seem to recall a contributory factor was rushing a departure and missing some checks. End result was potentially similar to the helios - aircraft did not pressurise. There's a report on the Irish AAIB website, I think. I'll see if I can dig out any more info if it is of interest - drop me a PM if you want.
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I fear that often the hurry up factor is also ill served by the cutting corners a little bit. We have always got away with it in the past and it is put into use daily in many forms i.e. leaving later from home thus speeding.
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what about the 757 that hit the granite in south america, i think it was a us airways so similar big american airline.
still had the spoilers up when it hit.
still had the spoilers up when it hit.
A very nasty accident.
Change of runways, hurried descent, no proper approach briefing for the new runway and, to top it all off, incorrect data in the FMC....or rather incorrectly read by the flight crew.
A classic example of a hurried approach.
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This is a very good issue to talk about!
May I suggest you also look into what ATC are doing to help?
A bloke from Swedish ATC told me that, in their runway incursion programme, they had a portion that was about reducing crew workload during taxi out for departure. For example, the whole thing about getting clearance on stand, encouraging crews to be fully ready before pushing etc and thereby also reducing the risk of making a rushed departure.
In their view, they're trying to reduce the risk of RWY incursions, but the result in our end is a more relaxed cockpit environment in which we're able to pick up on mistakes and faults that are prone to go unnoticed in a hurried cockpit.
It might provide an interesting angle to the topic.
/Low
May I suggest you also look into what ATC are doing to help?
A bloke from Swedish ATC told me that, in their runway incursion programme, they had a portion that was about reducing crew workload during taxi out for departure. For example, the whole thing about getting clearance on stand, encouraging crews to be fully ready before pushing etc and thereby also reducing the risk of making a rushed departure.
In their view, they're trying to reduce the risk of RWY incursions, but the result in our end is a more relaxed cockpit environment in which we're able to pick up on mistakes and faults that are prone to go unnoticed in a hurried cockpit.
It might provide an interesting angle to the topic.
/Low
Last edited by low n' slow; 2nd Jul 2008 at 09:21. Reason: content
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Hurry up...not
Heard on the KLAX ground frequency years ago when the first B747's were operational....
LAX ground:
Clipper One, can you expedite taxi?
Clipper One:
No we can NOT, we are all new to this big airplane and are still learning what all the levers and switches do.
LAX ground:
We understand Clipper One, we are still learning about all the switches in the tower cab also.
Unknown voice:
Clipper would be hard pressed to find their a** with both hands, even if the lights were on.
Silence followed.
A true story.
LAX ground:
Clipper One, can you expedite taxi?
Clipper One:
No we can NOT, we are all new to this big airplane and are still learning what all the levers and switches do.
LAX ground:
We understand Clipper One, we are still learning about all the switches in the tower cab also.
Unknown voice:
Clipper would be hard pressed to find their a** with both hands, even if the lights were on.
Silence followed.
A true story.
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... sometimes a put down ... which should be deleted in our PC world ... is just so funny that it has to stay ....
reminds me of another, which Centaurus related to me years ago, along the lines of "... how's them apples ?" but I guess that can wait for another day ...
reminds me of another, which Centaurus related to me years ago, along the lines of "... how's them apples ?" but I guess that can wait for another day ...
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Try this:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/rotorheads/333313-us-hems-ops.html#post4219151"]http://www.pprune.org/forums/rotorheads/333313-us-hems-ops.html#post4219151
It's heli examples that may be of use.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/rotorheads/333313-us-hems-ops.html#post4219151"]http://www.pprune.org/forums/rotorheads/333313-us-hems-ops.html#post4219151
It's heli examples that may be of use.
reminds me of another, which Centaurus related to me years ago
It goes roughly like this:
Queues of aircraft taxiing out for take off after delays due fog. Last in queue is DC8 bound for short distance destination but faced with 30 minute wait to line up and go. Pilot decides to cheat and asks tower for permission to take an intersection departure ahead of the heavies at the head of the conga line.
ATC see a gap in departures and authorises DC8 to enter runway at intersection ahead of the mob at the far end. DC8 expedites but instead of lining up proceeds to back track to the main threshold of departure runway. Much anger displayed by waiting aircraft and especially as first officer of DC8 gives a finger to others on taxiway and then boasts "How's thems apples?" over the radio.
ATC annoyed but clears DC8 for take off now at the start of runway. As the DC 8 accelerates, some one among all the other aircraft presses a fire warning test switch and opens his microphone so the warning bell noise goes over the air. The DC8 is seen to make a high speed abort on hearing the warning bell over the radio. Too late the DC 8 pilot realises it wasn't from his aircraft. Then came the drawl over the radio of "And how's THEM apples...."from the real culprit whoever he was.
DC8 now back to end of queue but with hot brakes..
Probably some truth in the story but even if not, it is a lovely tale.
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Great story!
My company's SOPs include the following (in the bit about taxiing for departure, but equally applicable to other aspects of the flight):
"Fast taxi speeds are dangerous - do not allow yourself to be rushed."
Better take a delay than cut corners.
Cheers
My company's SOPs include the following (in the bit about taxiing for departure, but equally applicable to other aspects of the flight):
"Fast taxi speeds are dangerous - do not allow yourself to be rushed."
Better take a delay than cut corners.
Cheers
Last edited by FougaMagister; 15th Jul 2008 at 13:43.
"Fast taxi speeds are dangerous - do not allow yourself to be rushed."
---Sometimes I think they're gonna try to drive to the destination via the NJ TpkeAlso, I hope that the the pre-taxi/taxi flows [if any] are very simple irrespective of type---i.e {breiks chequed}
edited to add--- planes are awkward on the ground and you all will go a bit faster than a car!! {limited stupid slow device for personal ground transit} soon enough---so don't get caught up in the ground and taxi slow
Re: pressure as a pilot---You can't just sway in every little 25 knot breeze that blow a along you must hold your resolve and resist the machismo that could lead to an accident don't allow any form of chiding, teasing or threatening to interfere with safety---Focus inside [yourself] yet carefully observe what's out---an {Ehrporte}
is not a drag strip, an amusement park, or the NY stock exchange-----an personally I've found the fastest way to get through all the preflight stuff is to go methodically and patiently through the flows I'm decently quick {whatever type I'm flying at the time} due to my experience with the ship and systems knowledge {after a good methodical review the AFM/POH}---aka cramming for my checks---but not because I rush-----------------------------And every body is different and works at different paces you don't have to be the fastest--it's not a race,...and every body has limitations--the trick is not to fight them but learn to work around them---every good pilot does it this way {for instance personally I love night flight---I'm a night person---very helpful at times---so for early morning flights--I go slower---talk on the the radio slower---write more stuff down---mess up on frequency more
---you all understand ----enough!
PA
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 15th Jul 2008 at 16:08. Reason: edite in italics
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Probably some truth in the story but even if not, it is a lovely tale.
The DC-8 in question?
Operated by Universal Airlines, one of the original thirteen US supplemental air carriers.
Location, KLAX, circa 1966.
Universal still exists, but not as an airline.
It is now known as Universal Weather.
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411A .. then Centaurus and I shall toast your continued good health when next we have a coffee .. often have I pondered that tale's verisimilitude ...
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Oh go on Centaurus, give him a fair go! JT's just bought a new Thesaurus, and getting his money's worth in trying out all of his new words on us unedjercated heathens
What does "verisimilitude" mean anyway JT?
Just wondering, might be useful in scrabble
Regards,
Old Smokey
What does "verisimilitude" mean anyway JT?
Just wondering, might be useful in scrabble
Regards,
Old Smokey