Challenging First Officers!

[Centaurus]

recognised that the granting of any a/c handling was a privilege and not a right!

Reminds me of another life when I was a copilot on Lincoln bombers and on my arrival at the squadron as a brand new 200 hour Wings graduate the Commanding Officer made me welcome with a nice cup of tea in his office. He was a decorated Wing Commander with impeccable manners and I was a lowly Sergeant. This Wing Commander had been shot down in flames by four Japanese Zeros while flying a Catalina and four of his seven crew were killed. He was captured and spent the rest of the war years in the infamous Changi Singapore prison.

After the war he was repatriated and resumed duties. Over tea and bikkies he pointed out I would fly as a second pilot with no take off and landings until I reached 300 hours on type or nine months with the squadron whichever came first. He reminded me of the need for good manners in the cockpit and no swearing. Good manners meant thanking the captain for the landing if and when I was offered one.

I saw him last year and he is a sprightly 90 years old. I was invited to share tea and bikkies with him just like 50 years ago. His manners were as ever - impeccable.

Back about 15 years ago, I was CFI of a flying school and flew a Cherokee Warrior to a country airstrip to meet up with my very first captain on the Lincoln. He too was a former RAAF bomber pilot flying Lancasters over Europe in the grim days of WW2. I brought with me some old photographs of our squadron days only to find that at age 80 he was nearly blind and really could not see them. I told him how I always remembered him giving me my first landing in a Lincoln when it was good manners to say thanks for the landing.

After tea and bikkies under the shade of a large gum tree, I offered him a circuit with me in the Warrior - just for old times sake, you understand...
He happily accepted and I was able to talk him around the circuit because he could not see the ground nor see the instruments apart from a blur. On final I talked him down like a visual GCA and told him when to flare and hold it. He was aware of the grassed airstrip and I held my hands close to the wheel as he flared and touched down gently. He couldn't see to taxi back to the gum tree where his wife and labrador retriever was watching from their old car - and so I taxied for him.

After the prop stopped and the mags were switched off, my old instructor turned in his seat and patting my shoulder said "Thanks for the landing, JL...."

Don't see much of those manners in todays flight decks...

[KindolFaret]

So... where's the limit?

I think there should be something in the flightdeck above everything... that constitutes the key for CRM from my point of view and that's mutual RESPECT.

I've only got over 300 hours on type (737)... (500 TT) dealing with ex-fighter captains everyday. When i'm PF, someones give you more freedom someones less... but you always learn something from each leg.

I have never had any problem with any captain... but... i always ask myself... where's the limit?? Obviously I'm unexperienced... so I assume directions and I comply unless I think they are unsafer or unsafe or against the procedures. But... when I see a Captain doing something I wouldn't do... I don't know if it's just my lack of experience or he is actually doing something wrong. Any ideas for that?

Very easy when it's about a procedure... but... I mean more... relative subjects like flying in **** weather, deciding if holding or making an app,... things that are not covered in the OPS manuals...

Good topic though...