RT or telephone?
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RT or telephone?
Although this has raised it's ugly head many times before, the message doesn't seem to be getting through.
With the summer season upon us, more and more pilots seem to want to use the RT to ask "admin" questions ("Why did we have to hold at a runway holding point when we don't normally?", "What is the delay" (when waiting to push in a Cul de Sac), "Why have we got a slot?" et al). When the RT is busy, ATCO's do not have the time to deal with such "faff" which could be solved with a phone call once on stand, IF there is sufficient reason to do so.
Also, just as a point of order, if you (or your comapny/handlers cause you to)miss your CTOT slot, and then get a 4 hour delay, the ATCO's and ATSA's in the tower are not responsible for this, and giving a lecture of how long your passengers have been travelling, or how long you have already been waiting for a slot will hold no water. It is also HIGHLY unprofessional to "vent your spleen" on the RT, and anything that the ATC staff could try and do to assist (over and above what they are REQUIRED to do) will probably no longer be forthcoming.
Please think before you transmit, and if you have an issue with ATC, a simple "Roger" then a phone call to the Watch Manager afterward will normally present a full explaination that can be talked through properly.
If this continues, it could pose a significant flight safety risk when RT time is already at a premium!
With the summer season upon us, more and more pilots seem to want to use the RT to ask "admin" questions ("Why did we have to hold at a runway holding point when we don't normally?", "What is the delay" (when waiting to push in a Cul de Sac), "Why have we got a slot?" et al). When the RT is busy, ATCO's do not have the time to deal with such "faff" which could be solved with a phone call once on stand, IF there is sufficient reason to do so.
Also, just as a point of order, if you (or your comapny/handlers cause you to)miss your CTOT slot, and then get a 4 hour delay, the ATCO's and ATSA's in the tower are not responsible for this, and giving a lecture of how long your passengers have been travelling, or how long you have already been waiting for a slot will hold no water. It is also HIGHLY unprofessional to "vent your spleen" on the RT, and anything that the ATC staff could try and do to assist (over and above what they are REQUIRED to do) will probably no longer be forthcoming.
Please think before you transmit, and if you have an issue with ATC, a simple "Roger" then a phone call to the Watch Manager afterward will normally present a full explaination that can be talked through properly.
If this continues, it could pose a significant flight safety risk when RT time is already at a premium!
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Originally Posted by Ops and Mops
Also, just as a point of order, if you (or your comapny/handlers cause you to)miss your CTOT slot, and then get a 4 hour delay, the ATCO's and ATSA's in the tower are not responsible for this, and giving a lecture of how long your passengers have been travelling, or how long you have already been waiting for a slot will hold no water. It is also HIGHLY unprofessional to "vent your spleen" on the RT, and anything that the ATC staff could try and do to assist (over and above what they are REQUIRED to do) will probably no longer be forthcoming.
Please think before you transmit, and if you have an issue with ATC, a simple "Roger" then a phone call to the Watch Manager afterward will normally present a full explaination that can be talked through properly.
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I agree with Dizzee, Ops and Mops, that was a classic piece of work. Do you mind posting it on a routine basis to keep the airways clear of verbal litter?
You've never worked in India have you? On a fairly recent flight to Chennai (Madras) we were given No.1 position in sequence and a local operator (no names necessary) given No.2. A 1 to 2 minute tirade followed telling of his lateness, his importance in life, his second cousin's relationship with the local Member of Parliament, and, as I recall, his Library Card number.
I came back with the remark that if our position was causing the aircraft so much stress, we'd happily accept a speed reduction or an orbit. The controller very quickly came back with "No, no, no, keep your speed up, you're 50 miles ahead of him. XYZ (the verbose operator), reduce to minimum clean speed, you're now No.3".
They have their ways to make you suffer..........................
Regards,
Old Smokey
You've never worked in India have you? On a fairly recent flight to Chennai (Madras) we were given No.1 position in sequence and a local operator (no names necessary) given No.2. A 1 to 2 minute tirade followed telling of his lateness, his importance in life, his second cousin's relationship with the local Member of Parliament, and, as I recall, his Library Card number.
I came back with the remark that if our position was causing the aircraft so much stress, we'd happily accept a speed reduction or an orbit. The controller very quickly came back with "No, no, no, keep your speed up, you're 50 miles ahead of him. XYZ (the verbose operator), reduce to minimum clean speed, you're now No.3".
They have their ways to make you suffer..........................
Regards,
Old Smokey
Gender Faculty Specialist
We do. But I think you should realise that using your position to "teach somebody a lesson" is very unprofessional and immature.
I do agree however, that using the r/t to vent spleen at ATC is also unprofessional and immature. Judging from the comments above it seems that you lot are just as bad as the people you're whinging about.
Don't forget that unable is a word we can use too.
I do agree however, that using the r/t to vent spleen at ATC is also unprofessional and immature. Judging from the comments above it seems that you lot are just as bad as the people you're whinging about.
Don't forget that unable is a word we can use too.
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Chill Chesty, I was joking! 
Of course I do, and I can honestly say that I've never done it. However, human nature being what it is, if one's faced with a/c A who's been argumentative and arsey, and a/c B who hasn't, and they both arrive at the holding point at the same time with no difference to the operation, who's more likely to go first?
The incidence of flight crews arguing with us is increasing, I assume due to commercial pressure. As a local examiner, I do try to encourage my colleagues not to get involved in exchanges on the R/T. Yes, ATCO's do 'lose it' from time to time, and we're sorting that out.
I'm all for giving crews information as to why I'm doing what I'm doing, especially if they ask, but sometimes I don't have time to inform one crew, let alone twenty.
The aspect of this to which I object most is when crews start telling me how to do my job: "Errr, Ground, if xxx could pull forwards after push, and yyy pushes long, and zzz waits over there, we could push and taxi out ahead of all of them....." I make no claim to be the best GMC in the business, but I think I get along ok. So either I explain what's going on, wasting R/T time on one of the most congested frequencies one can encounter, or I just say 'negative', which prompts: "Why not? We'll be quick, we won't delay anyone else....blah blah blah" And being the good little ATCO, I won't argue, because I know that it's dangerous to get flight crews all annoyed and make them miss something on take off etc etc.
It is amusing sometimes to think what the reaction would be to start asking a/c as they line up if they've got flaps at take off setting, or that parking brake is released when they call for taxi etc etc.
But I think you should realise that using your position to "teach somebody a lesson" is very unprofessional and immature.
The incidence of flight crews arguing with us is increasing, I assume due to commercial pressure. As a local examiner, I do try to encourage my colleagues not to get involved in exchanges on the R/T. Yes, ATCO's do 'lose it' from time to time, and we're sorting that out.
I'm all for giving crews information as to why I'm doing what I'm doing, especially if they ask, but sometimes I don't have time to inform one crew, let alone twenty.
The aspect of this to which I object most is when crews start telling me how to do my job: "Errr, Ground, if xxx could pull forwards after push, and yyy pushes long, and zzz waits over there, we could push and taxi out ahead of all of them....." I make no claim to be the best GMC in the business, but I think I get along ok. So either I explain what's going on, wasting R/T time on one of the most congested frequencies one can encounter, or I just say 'negative', which prompts: "Why not? We'll be quick, we won't delay anyone else....blah blah blah" And being the good little ATCO, I won't argue, because I know that it's dangerous to get flight crews all annoyed and make them miss something on take off etc etc.
It is amusing sometimes to think what the reaction would be to start asking a/c as they line up if they've got flaps at take off setting, or that parking brake is released when they call for taxi etc etc.
