deicing

[deice05]

Below is a letter I sent to Westjet, Transport Canada, and various other publications a few weeks ago. I have had no positive feedback as of yet from the airline.

I have been a viewer of posts on this website for years and have not made any postings, but have decided I would like to see more feedback from other viewers regarding this issue.

Thanks



West Jet Airlines
5055, 11th ST NE
Calgary, AB Canada
T2E 8N4

January 11th, 2006

Attn: Bruce Flodstedt
Director of Flight Operations

Subject: Ground Deicing Procedures

My family and I were passengers on a West Jet flight departing out of Montreal in late December 2005. We experienced something I still cannot believe occurred on a commercial flight in Canada. I would like to begin by stating that I am a pilot by profession, working for a large international corporate flight department, and feel it is my responsibility to report what the aviation industry knows is an extremely serious, potentially fatal, and 100% avoidable incident. Also, to be clear, I have no affiliation with, or any grievances of any kind, with any airline.

We departed on a West Jet flight shortly before Christmas from CYUL. It had been snowing lightly for the previous two hours. When our aircraft arrived at the gate thirty minutes before our departure, it was prepared and we were boarded. Our seats had us sitting at the trailing edge of the flaps with a very good view of the right wing. On taxi out from the main terminal I was pointing out the ice and snow on the wings to my five year old son explaining how we were going to the deicing pad to have our wings sprayed. At this point, I believe we are on Alpha taxiway holding short of Runway 28. Next thing you know we roll on to Runway 28 and begin the take off with heavy wing contamination. I was in complete shock, and there was nothing I could do about it at this point. Had we been taxiing for any of CYUL’s five other runways I would have had time to relay my concerns to the crew. I thought we would be taxiing across Runway 28 to taxiway Juliet or Kilo, which would lead us into the deicing pad.

It was not just a few specks of ice on the wing (which is still unacceptable), after observing loose snow and ice blow off, there was still moderate contamination left on the wing at rotation. The contamination did not blow off the flaps and outer wing areas until about 1200ft, and on the middle and root of the wing there was ice that did not sublimate until over 15,000 ft. It is well understood that even light contamination can have a dramatic effect on the wing’s lift characteristics causing the wing to stall. Given the number of accidents that occur due to icing, this should not be happening.
This was the first time I have been concerned on a commercial flight.
I approached the Captain after the flight and asked him why we departed without deicing. He said they were ‘cold soaked from the arrival and that they thought everything would blow off'. I told him that I saw ice well after we took off and asked if that was normal operating procedure in the 737 (knowing very well it is not). He admitted it wasn't. The First Officer then began to explain that deicing during these conditions would make things worse. That is when I expressed my displeasure at their lack of understanding and professionalism, and for making a decision that put my family, the passengers, and the crew at risk. I also enquired if it was not their responsibility to visually check the wings prior to takeoff in their company S.O.P’s, at which point they would have seen what I saw.
After a few more exchanges, the Captain said he ‘hoped I would not take this any further, and that he was sorry he disappointed us’. Conditions (see below) may have been present to assume any snow would just ‘blow off’, but not taking into account the many factors that may have raised the temperature enough to create ice (fuel temperatures, drifting exhaust gasses etc.) and not visually inspecting the wings prior to departure is a very hazardous attitude. If I was to conduct one of my flights in such a manor I believe I would be out of a job or severely reprimanded.
On our return to CYUL in the new year I observed another situation that reinforces the importance of addressing this issue. Our West Jet flight pushed back from the gate to proceed to the deicing pad, while at the same time another West Jet flight pushed back and did not deice. After sitting in the same conditions as our flight that morning, and observing aircraft from other companies deicing, I find it hard to believe that one crew could decide, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was safe to depart their aircraft.

After deliberating and speaking with peers on how to approach this issue, I have decided at this point, to keep this anonymous. It is my intention that the issue be brought forward to the whole West Jet pilot group, Transport Canada, and the public because if the specific flight were to be revealed, I would be concerned that West Jet and Transport Canada would simply punish the crew and there would be no further action or responsibility taken.

I am hoping to see awareness raised outside the company and I want to ensure this incident is on record if West Jet is to have an accident due to icing. If West Jet’s S.O.P.s do not reflect it, more stringent guidelines should be outlined for deciding when deicing is required, and greater explanation on the seriousness at lack of respect for this issue is necessary. Hidden pressures due to saving the company money, or keeping to the schedule, are issues that may also need to be addressed by West Jet and its pilot group.

Finally, I would like to state that until I’m convinced otherwise, my family, friends, and colleagues will be strongly advised by myself not to fly on this airline.

I can be contacted at [email protected]. I would like to be notified of your actions.

Conditions upon aircraft arrival in CYUL – 160/6 4S- 18SCT 30OVC –7/-9 29.96

Conditions upon aircraft departure from CYUL– 160/10 8S- 27OVC –6/-8 29.92

______________________________________________

CC Paul Ysselmuiden – West Jet Chief Pilot

CC Kevin Pickett – West Jet Director of Inflight Safety

CC Ken Graham – Transport Canada, Calgary

CC Fred Damico – Transport Canada, Winnipeg

CC Editor – Wings Magazine

CC Editor – Globe and Mail Newspaper

[ifleeplanes]

If there is any doubt there is no doubt. The crew concerned showed an apauling lack of judgement and were luck to get away with it. The FO showed a total lack of knowledge by trying to tell you how deicing would make the problem worse, had he not heard of hold over times and 2 step procedures?

The B737-800 does suffer badly from NEI and Boeing have approved an area on top of the wings to have iceing present, it is marked with black lines. Not all aviation authorities have approved this measure, I also personaly believe it could lead to abiguity in what should be a cut and dry stiuation.

Ice the thickness of fine sandpaper reduces lift by 30% and increases drag by 40%.

[Ice-bore]

Following a number of high profile 'ground icing related' accidents that occurred during take-off in the 80's/early 90's, a lot of work was (and continues to be) carried out by the industry in order reduce the potential for further such accidents. Areas such as common standards, approved fluids and training for both flight and ground crews have been addressed and adopted globally.

Hopefully, as a result of the efforts that have been made, incidents of this nature are now rare. However, it appears to suggest that while the infrastructure is now in place, more stringent auditing programmes may be required in order to ensure Operators comply with the requirements.

Having said this, maybe the regulations the Captain was working under need reviewing. With regard to the statement in the report, …..”I approached the Captain after the flight and asked him why we departed without deicing. He said they were ‘cold soaked from the arrival and that they thought everything would blow off'…..” this raises an interesting point. Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) 602.11 state, “…..No person shall conduct or attempt to conduct a take-off in an aircraft that has frost, ice or snow adhering to any of its critical surfaces…..”. As the Captain “..…thought everything would blow off…..”, i.e. was not adhering, was he operating within the regulations?

JAR-OPS 1.345 appears to be less ambiguous, “…..A commander shall not commence take-off unless the external surfaces are clear of any deposit which might adversely affect the performance and/or controllability of the aeroplane except as permitted in the Aeroplane Flight Manual."

[dav8r]

deice05:

Let me start with the obvious. Deicing and the clean wing concept are well understood by professional pilots. Nothing less is expected.
The not so obvious. Your motives. "I have decided at this point , to keep this anonymous". Are you kidding me? cc'ing media? The only thing anonymous is your name. Surely you must realise that accusations as serious as this will not be able to be addressed on the basis of an "anonymous letter". It brings into question your own real motives. I am dissapointed that a professional pilot as you call yourself has made assumptions on the actions of other professional pilots and worse yet posted these assumptions and accusations to various people and organisations anonymously. You should know better.
Instead of making a phone call to Capt. Flodstedt to hopefully clear up your concerns and address possible issues you chose to publicly smear WestJet on the internet.
If you were so concerned about the safety of WestJet's operation , what the hell were you doing putting your family on them on the return flight? Words fail me.

Captain Flodstedt have already tried to contact you via this forum. Come up front and tell your real intentions.

DAV8R.

[xetroV]

Originally Posted by ifleeplanes

The B737-800 does suffer badly from NEI and Boeing have approved an area on top of the wings to have iceing present, it is marked with black lines.

True, the 737NG's have a cold soaked fuel frost area that does not necessarily have to be de-iced prior to take-off, but several stringent conditions must be met: the frostlayer may not be too thick (if I recall correctly 1 to 2mm), it must be similar on both wings, it may only be present within the area enclosed by black lines and certainly not on leading edges and flight controls, there may be no visible moisture or precipitation, and OAT must be above freezing level. Assuming the circumstances described in the letter are correct, these conditions were not met in this case.

This is just a factual observation, by the way. I share dav8r's concerns regarding the motives of the original poster, but I prefer not to delve into those depths.

[glowplug]

deice

What on earth do you hope to accomplish by posting an anonymous smear letter on a public web site or in a news paper for that matter. If you understood what it means to be a professional pilot then you know that smears such as this do absolutly nothing other than damage to the industry as whole. Do you actually believe that your anonymous letter will change the way WestJet deices aircraft or the crew mindset.