Classis Drunk Captain Question
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Classis Drunk Captain Question
Got an interview coming up and they ask.
You report in the hotel lobby and find when you speak to the Captain, you smell alcohol on his breath. Also you suspect irrartioal behavoir as well. WHat do you do, ideally without dobbing him in and at the same time protecting the 400 passengers that you are just about to fly home?
You report in the hotel lobby and find when you speak to the Captain, you smell alcohol on his breath. Also you suspect irrartioal behavoir as well. WHat do you do, ideally without dobbing him in and at the same time protecting the 400 passengers that you are just about to fly home?
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first of all, with your grammar and spelling errors are you sure youre not a bit tipsy
. In all seriousness that question is a bit of a no brainer. Just say you express your concerns diplomatically at first and if it gets you nowhere walk out of the cockpit.
. In all seriousness that question is a bit of a no brainer. Just say you express your concerns diplomatically at first and if it gets you nowhere walk out of the cockpit.
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It was suggested to me, also in an interview, to suggest to the person concerned that they remove themselves from any possible situation by developing a sudden illness. Failing that if they don't feel there is a problem then remove yourself with a sudden illness! Makes sure that you are not a party to their disregard for the law and also provides some additional time while another crew member is located, who will then have to make their own decision. Removing yourself from the situation does not absolve you from making sure that that person does not fly. I think most pilots would remove themselves if someone had suspected that they were still under the influence and mentioned it to them directly.
niknak
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The correct answer is, report the captain to the police immediately.
What's more important? , the overall safety of the aircraft, including those outside of it as well as those in it, or preserving the career of someone who has no right to be anywhere near an aeroplane, never mind flying it.
What's more important? , the overall safety of the aircraft, including those outside of it as well as those in it, or preserving the career of someone who has no right to be anywhere near an aeroplane, never mind flying it.
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My personal opinion is that NSR has it correct. A smell of alcohol could be something innocent. Raise your concerns diplomatically at first. If this produces no result, you have to get harder. Certainly you must ensure that the guy doesn't fly. But there are ways and other ways of doing this.
The company will not thank you in the least for going straight to the police. You'll get the job done, but not in a manner that will help passenger confidence, help teamwork, help the company image or promote your job security.
LongRange, to go sick yourself doesn't help. Your company will send another FO. He then discovers the real problem, and will either fly or not. If he flies, the initial problem goes uncured. If he won't fly with this guy, then the company needs to send another Captain - and nobody will be happy bunnies. Longer delay, two extra pilots repositioned, extra expense.
The company will not thank you in the least for going straight to the police. You'll get the job done, but not in a manner that will help passenger confidence, help teamwork, help the company image or promote your job security.
LongRange, to go sick yourself doesn't help. Your company will send another FO. He then discovers the real problem, and will either fly or not. If he flies, the initial problem goes uncured. If he won't fly with this guy, then the company needs to send another Captain - and nobody will be happy bunnies. Longer delay, two extra pilots repositioned, extra expense.
Buttonpusher
Voice your concerns and tell him to bang in sick, give him a chance, if he refuses...then you refuse to get in the van, and let the back end crew know whats going on. Don't let him get near the plane as it would be a real no-no.
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niknak
Do you mean you think that's the correct answer for an interview or that it's what you'd do?
Would you call the police if you smelled alcohol on the breath of a fellow ATCO when he turned up to work?
I mean actually do, in real life, to a colleague - not in theory in an internet discussion.
Do you mean you think that's the correct answer for an interview or that it's what you'd do?
Would you call the police if you smelled alcohol on the breath of a fellow ATCO when he turned up to work?
I mean actually do, in real life, to a colleague - not in theory in an internet discussion.
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Give the guy/girl a way out.....my experience of people turning up to work full of booze, both aviation and non-aviation related is that there is usually a bigger picture to think about.
Be upfront, tell the individual you smell alcohol, and that you suspect they are drunk. Dont be nice about it, be firm and matter of fact.
Then give them a way out, tell them to go sick or it gets reported to the company.
Then to cover yourself, next time you see the chief pilot etc...have a word and tell him your a bit concerned about so an so, no need to be specific..just a word to the wise and all that.
Its happened to me..and it worked a treat, the guy admitted he had a problem (drink) sought help..and is now doing great things with his career.
My thoughts anyway.
Be upfront, tell the individual you smell alcohol, and that you suspect they are drunk. Dont be nice about it, be firm and matter of fact.
Then give them a way out, tell them to go sick or it gets reported to the company.
Then to cover yourself, next time you see the chief pilot etc...have a word and tell him your a bit concerned about so an so, no need to be specific..just a word to the wise and all that.
Its happened to me..and it worked a treat, the guy admitted he had a problem (drink) sought help..and is now doing great things with his career.
My thoughts anyway.
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Cervix73 has it spot on. Just done some command assessments and that was one of the questions I prepared for.
Give the guy/gal a way out, tell them you suspect they've been at the booze and tell them to go sick.
Then tell the rest of the crew that they're sick. Phone crewing tell them your colleague has gone sick and that you need a replacement. Once you've got a few spare moments (suggest a good few hours later) phone the flight ops manager with your thoughts.
That way you're covered, your colleague can't be fired because their isn't any proof and he knows he's going to be watched in future and has a chance to admit a problem which can then get sorted.
As has been said previously if someone turns up in that state there's probably a background situation requiring attention. I think most employers would rather get the person sorted and on the straight and level rather than have a nasty incident/exposure on the telly etc.
Give the guy/gal a way out, tell them you suspect they've been at the booze and tell them to go sick.
Then tell the rest of the crew that they're sick. Phone crewing tell them your colleague has gone sick and that you need a replacement. Once you've got a few spare moments (suggest a good few hours later) phone the flight ops manager with your thoughts.
That way you're covered, your colleague can't be fired because their isn't any proof and he knows he's going to be watched in future and has a chance to admit a problem which can then get sorted.
As has been said previously if someone turns up in that state there's probably a background situation requiring attention. I think most employers would rather get the person sorted and on the straight and level rather than have a nasty incident/exposure on the telly etc.
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At the risk of dragging this off-topic, to the poster who says alcohol has no smell...
http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...p/ethanol.html
"It is a clear colourless liquid with a pleasant smell. "
http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...p/ethanol.html
"It is a clear colourless liquid with a pleasant smell. "
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Drunk captain!
When people show up drunk for their work is both irresponsible and a disrespect for their job and their coworkers. Specially in aviation, where many lives are at stake. Personally if I would detect my captein beiing drunk, I would first, diplomatically try to talk to him, if he would refuse, (and were obviously drunk) I would phone up the company, and inform them. Company can make a decicion, and therefore avoid mediacoverage and bad rep. Also it saves the company a lot of money, they could give the capt. one last chace or something like that.. Thatīs what I would do...
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Hi all
This is a very interesting topic indeed!
Is it possible if somebody could give an example of how one would verbally find out if somebody was drunk through diplomatic questions, how would you word it?
hmy2k
This is a very interesting topic indeed!
Is it possible if somebody could give an example of how one would verbally find out if somebody was drunk through diplomatic questions, how would you word it?
hmy2k
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In reply to this debate i, sadly, have been in this situation.
My capt turnd up to the flight looking and acting abit worse for wear.
felt like something was not quite right...
i took my time, kept a close eye on him all the way to the aircraft, didn't want to jump to conclussions too soon. finally once in the cockpit i new i had to confront him. had to be on a personal level and tried to use my tact, thought as low key i could keep this the better.
Asked him if everything was alright? and if there had been any problems at home...
One thing led to another and finally he asked if i felt something was up? i told him i felt that he was un-fit to operate the flight and that he had put me in a very un-compfortable situation. i gave him 2 choices...
either he leaves or i do?
thankfully he agreed to report sudden sickness and leave the flt deck. a replacement capt was sent and the flt departed.
later on that week i contacted him and explained that it was for every ones best interests and that no more was going to be said by me....i stuck by my word and since then there has been no hard feelings between us.
hope this helps.....
My capt turnd up to the flight looking and acting abit worse for wear.
felt like something was not quite right...
i took my time, kept a close eye on him all the way to the aircraft, didn't want to jump to conclussions too soon. finally once in the cockpit i new i had to confront him. had to be on a personal level and tried to use my tact, thought as low key i could keep this the better.
Asked him if everything was alright? and if there had been any problems at home...
One thing led to another and finally he asked if i felt something was up? i told him i felt that he was un-fit to operate the flight and that he had put me in a very un-compfortable situation. i gave him 2 choices...
either he leaves or i do?
thankfully he agreed to report sudden sickness and leave the flt deck. a replacement capt was sent and the flt departed.
later on that week i contacted him and explained that it was for every ones best interests and that no more was going to be said by me....i stuck by my word and since then there has been no hard feelings between us.
hope this helps.....
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Some interesting comments on here which I find mostly to be about human relationships and dare I say it, CRM. The relationships aspect is very difficult since even the suggestion to some drinkers that they are affected by their intake can cause instant and aggressive denial, in any line of work.
Add to that a possible attitude from managers that the reporter is a troublesome employee and from colleagues that he/she is a tell-tale, then there is no wonder that the subject has caused so much discussion and different solutions.
Given the above concerns and that the primary concern should be the safety of the aircraft and passengers, perhaps the best answer would be a mandatory breath test for crew before signing onto a flight.
If the test is carried out before the person officially becomes crew, then no offence would have been caused and they would be prevented from joining the crew. This I think is important given the penalties that can be involved, who wants to see their pilot carted off by the local gendarmerie? Technically, I may be incorrect in that the crew members have been rostered but that is a legal point probably outside of the discussion.
A mandatory test removes all onus on colleagues from having to make difficult decisions that may affect their working relationships. The only person affected would be the person detected as incapacited by alcohol and that would be an objective measurement and not subjective. There is also the advantage of the deterrent effect of such a test. Clearly, if the person has a personal problem, that lies within the realm of the companies HR staff to address.
Finally, just to recognise that the problem of impairment of crew would not be completely solved, there has been no mention of drugs. I'm not concerned only with "social" drugs, but even some widely used drugs like anti-histamines can have debilitating affects on the taker. How many persons would declare themselves unfit because the bottle said "may cause drowsiness" I wonder?
Finally, finally, I am not aircrew, just trying to stand back and put across a different slant on things.
Add to that a possible attitude from managers that the reporter is a troublesome employee and from colleagues that he/she is a tell-tale, then there is no wonder that the subject has caused so much discussion and different solutions.
Given the above concerns and that the primary concern should be the safety of the aircraft and passengers, perhaps the best answer would be a mandatory breath test for crew before signing onto a flight.
If the test is carried out before the person officially becomes crew, then no offence would have been caused and they would be prevented from joining the crew. This I think is important given the penalties that can be involved, who wants to see their pilot carted off by the local gendarmerie? Technically, I may be incorrect in that the crew members have been rostered but that is a legal point probably outside of the discussion.
A mandatory test removes all onus on colleagues from having to make difficult decisions that may affect their working relationships. The only person affected would be the person detected as incapacited by alcohol and that would be an objective measurement and not subjective. There is also the advantage of the deterrent effect of such a test. Clearly, if the person has a personal problem, that lies within the realm of the companies HR staff to address.
Finally, just to recognise that the problem of impairment of crew would not be completely solved, there has been no mention of drugs. I'm not concerned only with "social" drugs, but even some widely used drugs like anti-histamines can have debilitating affects on the taker. How many persons would declare themselves unfit because the bottle said "may cause drowsiness" I wonder?
Finally, finally, I am not aircrew, just trying to stand back and put across a different slant on things.
Paradism, what do you do, are you a politician with many more lives on your hands then any pilot. A doctor, lawyer, magistrate, etc... if you start with pilots, you should make everybody who has a decision that can affect a person's life/safety take a tox screen. maybe, a breathalyzer in every car. oh right there has to be a prima facie case made for demanding a breath sample under the criminal code.