How do YOU say fail
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Thank you, fellow professionals, for the well reasoned and thoughtful responses to my post. I started this thread with a genuine concern for the 99.9% of failed check candidates whose careers are completely salvageable with a properly taken approach. A failure is a shattering experience for any pilot, but, properly managed, such a shattering experience can be positively rebuilt into a sound reconstructive process if handled correctly. It saddens me when I recall several people who could have rebuilt their confidence and flying ability, but for a savage beating down given by some less than considerate check airmen, whose actions caused them to abandon their careers.
I'm not going soft, a fail is a fail, black is black, and white is white, there are no acceptable shades of grey in determining a check result. If 'fail' is imprinted on my mind on the walk from the aircraft or simulator back to the de-briefing room, then 'fail' it is.
In putting together my own approach, with those of the other respondants here, I am of the opinion that the best package might be -
(1) Ask the failed candidate for his/her own assessment. If they concur with your own judgement of a fail, then (as Blue Eagle indicates),
(2) Examine the check piece by piece, assess where and why the mistakes were made, and how they might be corrected,
(3) Having agreed on the best course of correction, pronounce that the check was indeed a fail, and how we might now proceed to correct the problems, typically additional or supplementary training.
If the candidate cannot by self-assessment, or agreement with the critique, accept that he/she has failed, then the fairly blunt approach is required, and the option of retraining, or alternative employment elsewhere given fairly firmly.
Sometimes, it's necessary to be cruel to be kind. The worst dis-service I've seen to one of our number was a First Officer who was obviously well below standard, but after numerous fails, retrains, and rechecks managed to hold onto his flying career until his command came up. After several failures, retraining excercises, and final failure, was 'out in the cold' in his forties with no other qualifications other than a less than acceptable flying standard. He now works as a shoe salesman. Nothing wrong with that, but, had he been terminated back in his twenties, he could have, at least, owned the show store.
Thanks for the replies,
Old Smokey
I'm not going soft, a fail is a fail, black is black, and white is white, there are no acceptable shades of grey in determining a check result. If 'fail' is imprinted on my mind on the walk from the aircraft or simulator back to the de-briefing room, then 'fail' it is.
In putting together my own approach, with those of the other respondants here, I am of the opinion that the best package might be -
(1) Ask the failed candidate for his/her own assessment. If they concur with your own judgement of a fail, then (as Blue Eagle indicates),
(2) Examine the check piece by piece, assess where and why the mistakes were made, and how they might be corrected,
(3) Having agreed on the best course of correction, pronounce that the check was indeed a fail, and how we might now proceed to correct the problems, typically additional or supplementary training.
If the candidate cannot by self-assessment, or agreement with the critique, accept that he/she has failed, then the fairly blunt approach is required, and the option of retraining, or alternative employment elsewhere given fairly firmly.
Sometimes, it's necessary to be cruel to be kind. The worst dis-service I've seen to one of our number was a First Officer who was obviously well below standard, but after numerous fails, retrains, and rechecks managed to hold onto his flying career until his command came up. After several failures, retraining excercises, and final failure, was 'out in the cold' in his forties with no other qualifications other than a less than acceptable flying standard. He now works as a shoe salesman. Nothing wrong with that, but, had he been terminated back in his twenties, he could have, at least, owned the show store.
Thanks for the replies,
Old Smokey
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Good post with a lot of deep thoughts.
I personally used to do the self debrief method. by the time you are well into the self debrief the candidate will have realised himself where it is going.
One useful thing I was told and then trained and used on checks, was to stress to trainees that a major cock-up at the early stage of a check may not necessarily be an automatic fail. Allowing it to demoralise and destroy the further operation will (Akin to driving looking out of the rear window!). I stressedt that although the Gold Stars hed been lost, demontrating the ability to recover the situation and get the operation back on track could recover most of them. This would then cause me to review the original `Fail' point and see if it could not be viewed in such a way as to make it a severe debriefing point.
This of course applies in the real world, where a mistake has to be put in the past and moved on from.
Thanks for all the info chaps.
I personally used to do the self debrief method. by the time you are well into the self debrief the candidate will have realised himself where it is going.
One useful thing I was told and then trained and used on checks, was to stress to trainees that a major cock-up at the early stage of a check may not necessarily be an automatic fail. Allowing it to demoralise and destroy the further operation will (Akin to driving looking out of the rear window!). I stressedt that although the Gold Stars hed been lost, demontrating the ability to recover the situation and get the operation back on track could recover most of them. This would then cause me to review the original `Fail' point and see if it could not be viewed in such a way as to make it a severe debriefing point.
This of course applies in the real world, where a mistake has to be put in the past and moved on from.
Thanks for all the info chaps.
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Nice response Fragman88, one of my components of the pre-check briefing is "WHEN, not IF, you make a mistake, your performance will be judged upon how well you recognise and recover from it. Then, put it behind you, and move on with the rest of the exercise".
Regards,
Old Smokey
Regards,
Old Smokey
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The problem is that, in the UK, the procedure for a 'fail' debrief is clearly laid down. If you go against that you are leaving yourself wide open to litigation. A clever lawyer could say to the examiner "So if you were so certain that you saw a 20kt speed error, why did you have to ask him to confirm it contrary to CAA Document 24?". I have known this happen in an appeal to the CAA but the CAA backed the TRE. They did however insist on the TRE having more training prior to a check with a CAA Inspector. An Industrial Tribunal Judge might not take the same view, and might side with the candidate.
I agree that, having given the result, it is important to send the candidate away with confidence, knowing that, with extra training, they can achieve the required standard.
Airclues
I agree that, having given the result, it is important to send the candidate away with confidence, knowing that, with extra training, they can achieve the required standard.
Airclues
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I peronally hate it when they leave until the end of the briefing to tell you the result. these days I am not too worried but I think some people enjoy making you suffer and that is why they become trainers in the first place.
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Im afraid I can't agree with engineer in only one aspect. The failure notfication has to come last. Blue Eagle has it right.
If Engineers techniques is used and the trainee hasn't seen it coming the rest of the debrief will be a waste of time.
If you give a thorough debriefing as described by Engineer it gives the trainee the opportunity to see some of the stuff he screwed up he may not have been aware of. You can almost see awareness of what has happened in their eyes as you continue with the debriefing.
It also gives the trainee a little more time to get his emotions in order for the message you finally have to deliver.
It also gives him the opportunity for the other stuff to come out.
While going through this process one day a trainee confessed he had caught his mate in bed with his wife the night before. (I happened to know that his wife was having an affair from other rumours circulating). Instead of failing him I chose to mark the sim detail as incomplete and told him to go and get some time off from the Chief Pilot and then submit himself for the sim again. I subsequently called the Chief Pilot and told him what I had done.
He was very happy with my handling of the situation.
If Engineers techniques is used and the trainee hasn't seen it coming the rest of the debrief will be a waste of time.
If you give a thorough debriefing as described by Engineer it gives the trainee the opportunity to see some of the stuff he screwed up he may not have been aware of. You can almost see awareness of what has happened in their eyes as you continue with the debriefing.
It also gives the trainee a little more time to get his emotions in order for the message you finally have to deliver.
It also gives him the opportunity for the other stuff to come out.
While going through this process one day a trainee confessed he had caught his mate in bed with his wife the night before. (I happened to know that his wife was having an affair from other rumours circulating). Instead of failing him I chose to mark the sim detail as incomplete and told him to go and get some time off from the Chief Pilot and then submit himself for the sim again. I subsequently called the Chief Pilot and told him what I had done.
He was very happy with my handling of the situation.
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All the checkrides that I have assessed have been in the aircraft itself, where one can only go so far in allowing a dangerous situation to develop. At the debrief, it is important to make the point that intervention was necessary (either verbal or physical), which reduces the posibility of 'pushback' from the examinee.
I think that the most interesting aspect of this thread is not the means by which you convey that the standard has not been achieved, but the attempt to discover why it has happened, especially with experienced pilots. It is extremely rare that a lack of natural aptitude is the cause, except in the case of student pilots. I have seen cases personal pressures, chronic fatigue, simple lack of motivation and in the extreme, potentially severe medical and psychological conditions. Nearly all can be salvaged, and if possible, I have tried to the focus the debrief in that direction.
Apologies for the diversion!
Mel
I think that the most interesting aspect of this thread is not the means by which you convey that the standard has not been achieved, but the attempt to discover why it has happened, especially with experienced pilots. It is extremely rare that a lack of natural aptitude is the cause, except in the case of student pilots. I have seen cases personal pressures, chronic fatigue, simple lack of motivation and in the extreme, potentially severe medical and psychological conditions. Nearly all can be salvaged, and if possible, I have tried to the focus the debrief in that direction.
Apologies for the diversion!
Mel
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to tell or not to tell
the problem will telling FAIL last is that the recepient is not expcting to fail, and thus will wonder why the debrief was not negative in content.
The debrief must reflect the "errors", and the marginal, and the acceptable, if any one error is enough to warrant a fail then say so.
The UK CAA spent two weeks teaching just how to say FAIL....I do not have my notes, but the concelt is: that the standard demonstrated today has not reached the required standard.
As an aside the UK CAA also went to great lengths to ensure that if there was any room for doubt the candidate should be given the benefit.
Just my 1P worth.... Bumz
The debrief must reflect the "errors", and the marginal, and the acceptable, if any one error is enough to warrant a fail then say so.
The UK CAA spent two weeks teaching just how to say FAIL....I do not have my notes, but the concelt is: that the standard demonstrated today has not reached the required standard.
As an aside the UK CAA also went to great lengths to ensure that if there was any room for doubt the candidate should be given the benefit.
Just my 1P worth.... Bumz
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on the other end
please chk my post on medical
I was until recently ! a captain on a twin jet , based LGW, I failed my LPC, quite rightly so, presented my self unprepaired, was put back into the system for re-assesment...able to re-take the LPC
Now this is where the problems start....we as pilots are so self critical, we all want to be perfect but know we can't , we are after all human.
having had the instructor/examiner tell us all our faults it is very difficult to go away and re-assess the situation ( yes i accept that when it all goes .... up for real there is no opportunity to re- assess) but for the candidate the pressure is now so intense that the chances of getting through a " re-assessment " are virtually nil, once the self confidence has gone, its a slippery pole back up.
from my own experience, and. after going through 3 command re-assessments and failing, being reseated ...........and failing, I am now at rock bottom..........having been a captain ( for 8 years) to being a gibbering wreck......wondering if i will ever be able to fly again is so self destructive.
All this could have been sorted right at the beginning !!!!
Instructors PLEASE take note.most line pilots are scare sh..less of the SIM, the self induced pressures cannot be explained, if we get it wrong it is because we are so tense and stressed, afraid of getting it wrong while someone is watching and most important of all, is letting ourselves down under pesssure.
We all learn from our own mistakes, I think that being given the chance to prove that we have learn't and understood at the time (IMHO) is far more productive than sending the poor chap away to beat them selves up ( which we all do !) then come back to go over all that has gone before.
My point is ..nail it now not later
I was until recently ! a captain on a twin jet , based LGW, I failed my LPC, quite rightly so, presented my self unprepaired, was put back into the system for re-assesment...able to re-take the LPC
Now this is where the problems start....we as pilots are so self critical, we all want to be perfect but know we can't , we are after all human.
having had the instructor/examiner tell us all our faults it is very difficult to go away and re-assess the situation ( yes i accept that when it all goes .... up for real there is no opportunity to re- assess) but for the candidate the pressure is now so intense that the chances of getting through a " re-assessment " are virtually nil, once the self confidence has gone, its a slippery pole back up.
from my own experience, and. after going through 3 command re-assessments and failing, being reseated ...........and failing, I am now at rock bottom..........having been a captain ( for 8 years) to being a gibbering wreck......wondering if i will ever be able to fly again is so self destructive.
All this could have been sorted right at the beginning !!!!
Instructors PLEASE take note.most line pilots are scare sh..less of the SIM, the self induced pressures cannot be explained, if we get it wrong it is because we are so tense and stressed, afraid of getting it wrong while someone is watching and most important of all, is letting ourselves down under pesssure.
We all learn from our own mistakes, I think that being given the chance to prove that we have learn't and understood at the time (IMHO) is far more productive than sending the poor chap away to beat them selves up ( which we all do !) then come back to go over all that has gone before.
My point is ..nail it now not later
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Unfortunately people do fail to meet the grade sometimes. It is not easy to fail people but it is the responsibility which every examiner carries.
In the few occasions when I have had to prounce a fail. I have gone for the direct approach; i.e inform the pilot that he has not met the grade and then proceed to explain to them why I have failed them. There is no polite or best way of telling people that they have failed. Honesty and explanation is the best course of action. If my instincs are right the pilots involved are not happy with it but eventually appreciate an honest analysis of the cause of their failure.
As an examiner/check airman it is important that one is fair to everybody, that way you do not have to worry too much about those you failed. But I can guarantee that you will remember all of them for the rest of your life.
In the few occasions when I have had to prounce a fail. I have gone for the direct approach; i.e inform the pilot that he has not met the grade and then proceed to explain to them why I have failed them. There is no polite or best way of telling people that they have failed. Honesty and explanation is the best course of action. If my instincs are right the pilots involved are not happy with it but eventually appreciate an honest analysis of the cause of their failure.
As an examiner/check airman it is important that one is fair to everybody, that way you do not have to worry too much about those you failed. But I can guarantee that you will remember all of them for the rest of your life.
