Now, your Captain is smoking during flight
PPRuNe Handmaiden
For those who've had a go at my CRM, you weren't there. There's establishing how a situation will run and there's being overbearing. I respect the former, I don't like the latter.
It is against (that company's) SOPs to smoke in the cockpit. I guess I failed to add that the captains that liked to smoke would excuse themselves and have a smoke in the back. (freight). We had 3 captains that liked to smoke inflight. 2 were very pleasant about it, the one I mentioned earlier simply announced that he would do it in the cockpit against company SOPs.
Who made the better overall captains? The two that took the FOs health considerations into account, as an aside, they had much better CRM and they were better technical operators too. This was a view held by other captains and FOs in the company.
It is against (that company's) SOPs to smoke in the cockpit. I guess I failed to add that the captains that liked to smoke would excuse themselves and have a smoke in the back. (freight). We had 3 captains that liked to smoke inflight. 2 were very pleasant about it, the one I mentioned earlier simply announced that he would do it in the cockpit against company SOPs.
Who made the better overall captains? The two that took the FOs health considerations into account, as an aside, they had much better CRM and they were better technical operators too. This was a view held by other captains and FOs in the company.
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Ashtrays? Who needs ashtrays? Empty can of coke is a sufficient receptacle for butts and ash....
NEVER smoked, but most assuredly do NOT prejudice against those that do! The anti-smoking thing has just got so totally out of hand and OUT OF PROPORTION, it is truly bewildering! I think George Orwell was the truest prophet yet, when he wrote 1984. It is so nice for governments to make our decisions for us.
Anyway, back on topic. If someone lights up in the cockpit without a friendly "Do you mind" first, what's the point causing office tension. Best remedy is alluded to elsewhere in this thread - rip a couple of rip-snorter farts out, and soon enough the smoker will not only be overcome by stench, but the real and present danger of an explosive gas environment exists within a confined space...
Let them smoke. If you are THAT affected, go for a walk, or grab the oxygen mask and stare intently at them until they laugh themselves stupid and put it out.
PC, that is Politically Correct, people go through life being PC - that's Pathetically Contrite!
NEVER smoked, but most assuredly do NOT prejudice against those that do! The anti-smoking thing has just got so totally out of hand and OUT OF PROPORTION, it is truly bewildering! I think George Orwell was the truest prophet yet, when he wrote 1984. It is so nice for governments to make our decisions for us.
Anyway, back on topic. If someone lights up in the cockpit without a friendly "Do you mind" first, what's the point causing office tension. Best remedy is alluded to elsewhere in this thread - rip a couple of rip-snorter farts out, and soon enough the smoker will not only be overcome by stench, but the real and present danger of an explosive gas environment exists within a confined space...
Let them smoke. If you are THAT affected, go for a walk, or grab the oxygen mask and stare intently at them until they laugh themselves stupid and put it out.
PC, that is Politically Correct, people go through life being PC - that's Pathetically Contrite!
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At one time I was the ground Engineer with a dubious Icelandic airline I was on the A/C and landed at JNB The Captain(no longer with Us his name ryhmed with Tickles)got His cancer sticks out as He was coming out of the cockpit I pointed out to Him as he was no longer the A/C Commander that I did not want him to light-up as the A/C was now My responsibility,He acted like the Gentleman He always was and put them away.
A class act,He is and always will be a very much missed Friend
R.I.P. Richard.
DM
A class act,He is and always will be a very much missed Friend
R.I.P. Richard.
DM
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G'day, I dont smoke but like some others here dont hold it against those that do. I do however think that smokers should make every effort not to smoke in confined spaces that they share with non smokers. A good friend of mine just chews nicorette when on long haul and says that after a little while getting used to it it got rid of the cravings etc. Go the nicorette.
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To Sideloader
Ignore all the smoking tolerant clap-trap spouted by the various contributors. Secondary smoke is a proven cause of cancer! You are entitled to work in a smoke free environment. Full Stop.
Sadly the great majority of smokers are the most selfish people on the planet. Me Me Me - my right to smoke- blah blah blah. Flight crew who smoke in the cockpit don’t care about the damage they do to co-workers health; they don’t care that the cabin crew, many of which would also like a cigarette but cannot; they don’t care about the many pax who would are also desperate for one but will be arrested if they do light up. These are the same sort of selfish people who sneak off for a fag in the corner of some handy building while the cabin crew clean the cabin and board the pax on a 20 minute turnround - once again denied the opportunity for the fix they also desire. If flight crew cannot operate safely without a fag in their mouth then they should not be flying. What happens on the day they forget their matches? Forced to stay airborne without their fix, if they become incapable of operating to normal efficiency do they really belong in a cockpit? Nothing but BS.
Start by telling your captain that you would prefer him not to smoke in the cockpit. If he ignores your request, then he is not a fit person to be operating with. On a multi sector day, tell him you will be offloading yourself at the next possible opportunity (eg at home base where a replacement can be brought it). He will soon work out that any subsequent disruption in the schedule will be down to him for contravening SOPs.. .. If it is not a multi-sector day and that is not an option, you are left with only the threat to report him to the management. I say again, you are entitled to work in a smoke free environment! Be gentle and polite but escalate as necessary to achieve the desired result.
Sadly the great majority of smokers are the most selfish people on the planet. Me Me Me - my right to smoke- blah blah blah. Flight crew who smoke in the cockpit don’t care about the damage they do to co-workers health; they don’t care that the cabin crew, many of which would also like a cigarette but cannot; they don’t care about the many pax who would are also desperate for one but will be arrested if they do light up. These are the same sort of selfish people who sneak off for a fag in the corner of some handy building while the cabin crew clean the cabin and board the pax on a 20 minute turnround - once again denied the opportunity for the fix they also desire. If flight crew cannot operate safely without a fag in their mouth then they should not be flying. What happens on the day they forget their matches? Forced to stay airborne without their fix, if they become incapable of operating to normal efficiency do they really belong in a cockpit? Nothing but BS.
Start by telling your captain that you would prefer him not to smoke in the cockpit. If he ignores your request, then he is not a fit person to be operating with. On a multi sector day, tell him you will be offloading yourself at the next possible opportunity (eg at home base where a replacement can be brought it). He will soon work out that any subsequent disruption in the schedule will be down to him for contravening SOPs.. .. If it is not a multi-sector day and that is not an option, you are left with only the threat to report him to the management. I say again, you are entitled to work in a smoke free environment! Be gentle and polite but escalate as necessary to achieve the desired result.
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Choose the simple way out. If you don't want your captain to smoke, I'd suggest that you say "I'd prefer it if you didn't". If he then does, depending on the sort of outfit you work for, think about the sort of action you wish to take. I'd suggest that you are working for a small airline and your position in the pecking order is low - so do you want to piss on your own chips? If that is OK, then dob him in, but don't expect a pat on the back. The world isn't fair! Working for a big outfit, go for it. You might never have to fly with him again. Either way, inform your union when you start throwing rocks in the pond. (I hope you are a member). Either way, think carefully about the action you take after a smoking flight - some previous posts from children are not offering good advice.
As an asside, one of my colleagues left the flight deck when his captain lit up and told him to ring the call bell when he had finished.
As an asside, one of my colleagues left the flight deck when his captain lit up and told him to ring the call bell when he had finished.
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I am very surprised that so many people have suggested it acceptable that the captains are allowed to smoke. Apart from being unpleasant for the first officer who has to sit in a crowded space with the horrible smell, surely it is a fire hazard too? What if something occurs which requires the captain to take control of the aircraft and perform an immediate maneuvere? It's no good if he's got a cigarette in his mouth and doesn't have time to put it out!
From a passenger's perspective I would feel very disappointed if my pilot began smoking in flight - I do not smoke, but if the airlines are going to take such a safety-conscious line regarding what passengers can/cannot do it seems hypocritical for the pilot to do otherwise.
I have no problem with people smoking in general, but I would hate to work alongside someone who smokes in flight - it's against most (all?) airline rules and isn't professional.
Interestingly, are there smoke detectors in modern cabin environments?
From a passenger's perspective I would feel very disappointed if my pilot began smoking in flight - I do not smoke, but if the airlines are going to take such a safety-conscious line regarding what passengers can/cannot do it seems hypocritical for the pilot to do otherwise.
I have no problem with people smoking in general, but I would hate to work alongside someone who smokes in flight - it's against most (all?) airline rules and isn't professional.
Interestingly, are there smoke detectors in modern cabin environments?
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Smoking in the cockpit
I as an ex Emb110 Cpt 3000hrs and an ex Fk27 Sfo 2000hrs, I have seen the world from both seats.
First Jet job B737/300,Cardif to larnaca Cyprus, first line tng sector passing Flt level 100 Cpt requests "10000 feet checks,which I performed from the Qrh. I said checks completed
Cpt stated "Not quite young Sir" and pulled his pipe out and his bag of baccy,and proceeded to construct his mini bonfire,forget the smell you could barely see the flt director throught the smoke ,it made me cough ,and he said ,I wont complain about your farting if you dont complain about my smoking.I laughed and pulled out the Bensons and asked if it was allright,Fill your boots fill your boots young sir. Cpt was ex army air corps and ex BA with millions of hours.
Later at Boeing Seattle I asked about smoking on the flt deck and was told no problem, with both packs on HI and the recirc fan on the cockpit air is recycled very quickly and the smoke disappears.
The problem with smoking in an A/C is the tar and nicotine clog up the air con system which then requires more maintenance and hence costs money GOD forbid spend money on maintenance,bean counters fall about in apopleptic fits. So the lords and sirs who run airlines banned it.
Ref Rananim youve got the right attitude you will do well as for the model helicopter driver from NZ if you turned the fire extiguisher on me as a Cpt, I would hit you on the head with the fire axe and on landing have you charged with endangering the safety of MY AIRCRAFT,not yours F/O mine I had to sign for it !
First Jet job B737/300,Cardif to larnaca Cyprus, first line tng sector passing Flt level 100 Cpt requests "10000 feet checks,which I performed from the Qrh. I said checks completed
Cpt stated "Not quite young Sir" and pulled his pipe out and his bag of baccy,and proceeded to construct his mini bonfire,forget the smell you could barely see the flt director throught the smoke ,it made me cough ,and he said ,I wont complain about your farting if you dont complain about my smoking.I laughed and pulled out the Bensons and asked if it was allright,Fill your boots fill your boots young sir. Cpt was ex army air corps and ex BA with millions of hours.
Later at Boeing Seattle I asked about smoking on the flt deck and was told no problem, with both packs on HI and the recirc fan on the cockpit air is recycled very quickly and the smoke disappears.
The problem with smoking in an A/C is the tar and nicotine clog up the air con system which then requires more maintenance and hence costs money GOD forbid spend money on maintenance,bean counters fall about in apopleptic fits. So the lords and sirs who run airlines banned it.
Ref Rananim youve got the right attitude you will do well as for the model helicopter driver from NZ if you turned the fire extiguisher on me as a Cpt, I would hit you on the head with the fire axe and on landing have you charged with endangering the safety of MY AIRCRAFT,not yours F/O mine I had to sign for it !
I think the main issue about smoking is the heavy smell and the suffocation caused by cigarette smoking...
I think (from a ground based but aviation related experience) the idea is to use all means at your disposal to eliminate the unplesant effects for the non-smoker. The ventilation comes to my mind.
However the main issue is how do you like the other guy and how well do you interact? If the guy asks and puts the fans on high I guess it is ok!
Now if he persists smoking against SOP running the smoke in the FD drill or take a short break in the galley seems reasonable to me.
Rwy in Sight
I think (from a ground based but aviation related experience) the idea is to use all means at your disposal to eliminate the unplesant effects for the non-smoker. The ventilation comes to my mind.
However the main issue is how do you like the other guy and how well do you interact? If the guy asks and puts the fans on high I guess it is ok!
Now if he persists smoking against SOP running the smoke in the FD drill or take a short break in the galley seems reasonable to me.
Rwy in Sight
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What is all this b***sh*t??
The fare paying passengers - the ones who pay the aircrew salaries - are no longer allowed to smoke. Why the hell should the crew be allowed to do so?
The fare paying passengers - the ones who pay the aircrew salaries - are no longer allowed to smoke. Why the hell should the crew be allowed to do so?
Here is some light reading for those of you who "don't have a problem with other people smoking" in their presence.
Harmful effects of smoking cigarettes
Harmful chemicals in cigarettes
Ah! You'll love this last one. Here is a list of the 600 tobacco additives permitted in the UK.
OMG. Read this.
Harmful effects of smoking cigarettes
Harmful chemicals in cigarettes
Ah! You'll love this last one. Here is a list of the 600 tobacco additives permitted in the UK.
OMG. Read this.
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It could be, yes. As a long-term smoker, though, I have to warn that much use of nicotine gum can do really, really nasty things to the lining of your stomach. First sign is excess acid. It goes on from there.
G'day Captain Stable.
I don't mean to be smart but...
You can't deny cigarette smoke does just as nasty things to your lungs (and worse) as you claim the gum does to your stomach. Remember how hard you coughed when you had that first drag? That was your natural defences kicking in trying to do it's best to repel that which it considered a threat. It's just that by now, you've beaten your natural defence mechanism into submission.
"Environmental pollutants, such as cigarette smoke, dust, or smog, can also cause a cough. In the case of cigarette smokers, the nicotine present in the smoke paralyzes the hairs (cilia) that regularly flush mucus from the respiratory system."
At least with the gum, you're keeping the nasties to yourself.
Go the patches!!
I don't mean to be smart but...
You can't deny cigarette smoke does just as nasty things to your lungs (and worse) as you claim the gum does to your stomach. Remember how hard you coughed when you had that first drag? That was your natural defences kicking in trying to do it's best to repel that which it considered a threat. It's just that by now, you've beaten your natural defence mechanism into submission.
"Environmental pollutants, such as cigarette smoke, dust, or smog, can also cause a cough. In the case of cigarette smokers, the nicotine present in the smoke paralyzes the hairs (cilia) that regularly flush mucus from the respiratory system."
At least with the gum, you're keeping the nasties to yourself.
Go the patches!!
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No denying any of that! Patches never worked for me. But I never smoked on the flightdeck, anyway - I wouldn't inflict that on either a non-smoking F/O, or on the crew taking the aircraft over from me.
Smoke does nasty things to outflow valves and aircon systems as well. Don't smoke on board!
Smoke does nasty things to outflow valves and aircon systems as well. Don't smoke on board!
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Captain Stable,
It had a plus side as well. In the smoking era, engineers found it very straight-forward to track down a pressurisation leak by the tar trail downstream of the leak.
Regards,
Old Smokey
Smoke does nasty things to outflow valves and aircon systems as well.
Regards,
Old Smokey
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I have no strong opinions either way on the issue of smoking on the flight deck, but it was a very detrimental day for air safety when it was banned on aircraft.
In my day job as an engineer I found several serious cracks along rows of fasteners just by following the brown stain forwards. These cracks would have been otherwise invisible to the naked eye and were only confirmed by NDT examination. Without the brown stain, I'd have had no reason to look any further.
Air Aloha could have used that technique to find the flaws in their 737 cabriolet if they hadn't embraced the PC requirement for smoke free environments.
As this is the CRM forum, I thought you'd like to hear a quote from a TRI/TRE with a well known UK airline on the subject. For background he was ex RAF, so enough said............
" The problem with CRM is that it makes first officers think they have an opinion ".
Any Left Hand Seaters out there like to comment on that?
In my day job as an engineer I found several serious cracks along rows of fasteners just by following the brown stain forwards. These cracks would have been otherwise invisible to the naked eye and were only confirmed by NDT examination. Without the brown stain, I'd have had no reason to look any further.
Air Aloha could have used that technique to find the flaws in their 737 cabriolet if they hadn't embraced the PC requirement for smoke free environments.
As this is the CRM forum, I thought you'd like to hear a quote from a TRI/TRE with a well known UK airline on the subject. For background he was ex RAF, so enough said............
" The problem with CRM is that it makes first officers think they have an opinion ".
Any Left Hand Seaters out there like to comment on that?
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I even ask my collegue to read the newspaper during cruise but some don't ask for a cigarette, what a proof of selfich behaviour...
Ask him if next time he could at least know if you don't mind!
Ask him if next time he could at least know if you don't mind!
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I am totally gobsmacked that so many contributors to this thread have condoned a captain, and by extension anybody, smoking on the flightdeck. It is selfish in the extreme to impose any unpleasant or anti-social activity upon anybody and if a 'captain' does so then, irrespective of his/her supposed flying abilities, his/her right to respect and trust which is inherent in the status of command must be questionable.
Firstly, tell the offender that you would mind if he/she smoked. If he/she disregarded your request then make it quite clear you will report the captain. If your company SOPs do not allow smoking and you are not supported by your manager if you were to complain then leave. It would be sympomatic of a company of condoning any breach of SOPs. If a captain said 'would you mind if I do a roll off the top at top of climb' you would (I hope - and you are in a passenger carrying aircraft!) say yes - same goes for smoking.
If all else fails, go onto oxygen and send the selfish b....d the dry cleaning bill for your smoke-laden uniform.
Firstly, tell the offender that you would mind if he/she smoked. If he/she disregarded your request then make it quite clear you will report the captain. If your company SOPs do not allow smoking and you are not supported by your manager if you were to complain then leave. It would be sympomatic of a company of condoning any breach of SOPs. If a captain said 'would you mind if I do a roll off the top at top of climb' you would (I hope - and you are in a passenger carrying aircraft!) say yes - same goes for smoking.
If all else fails, go onto oxygen and send the selfish b....d the dry cleaning bill for your smoke-laden uniform.
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Smokers may believe they have a "human right" to smoke whenever they like, but as a non-smoker I have a "human right" to breathe in clean air, not polluted smoke filled air.
I think it is extremely rude for Captains not to ask the other pilot if they can smoke.
As for SOPs, watch out all you FOs who put up with Captains smoking when they shouldn't be. This happened in my company and after one of the cabin crew had reported him (and been backed up by others) the FO was dragged in to ask why they had not reported it. So they were put in the s*it by the Captain's "right" to smoke.
Be careful....
I think it is extremely rude for Captains not to ask the other pilot if they can smoke.
As for SOPs, watch out all you FOs who put up with Captains smoking when they shouldn't be. This happened in my company and after one of the cabin crew had reported him (and been backed up by others) the FO was dragged in to ask why they had not reported it. So they were put in the s*it by the Captain's "right" to smoke.
Be careful....