Are you as commander
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
Yes.
In my company and I am sure many others, the cabin crew are tested on random procedures by the senior cabin crew member. If the individual cannot satisy the questioner they are replaced for that flight.
I am sure no system is perfect, but the requirement to be regularly checked places an additional imperative for the indivudal to keep up to speed on procedures. This coupled with recurrent training and the ability of good CRM principles to balance any weakness is probably as much as can be reasonably expected.
In my company and I am sure many others, the cabin crew are tested on random procedures by the senior cabin crew member. If the individual cannot satisy the questioner they are replaced for that flight.
I am sure no system is perfect, but the requirement to be regularly checked places an additional imperative for the indivudal to keep up to speed on procedures. This coupled with recurrent training and the ability of good CRM principles to balance any weakness is probably as much as can be reasonably expected.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,627
Likes: 2
From: UTC +8
As commander I know what the duties of cockpit crewmembers are during an emergency. I am neither concerned nor responsible for cabin crew proficiency in emergency training. That is the operator's task and responsibility.
Furthermore, cockpit crew are not paid nor invited to attend cabin crew training classes.
The real test of demonstrated performance is during an actual emergency evacuation, and I haven't had the misfortune to experience that yet.
Furthermore, cockpit crew are not paid nor invited to attend cabin crew training classes.
The real test of demonstrated performance is during an actual emergency evacuation, and I haven't had the misfortune to experience that yet.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
From: Vilha Abrao
@GlueBall
Furthermore, cockpit crew are not paid nor invited to attend cabin crew training classes
In my company we are not only invited we are participants of recurrent CA emergency training (yearly) and it' s sometimes not amusing.
regards
In my company we are not only invited we are participants of recurrent CA emergency training (yearly) and it' s sometimes not amusing.
regards
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,704
Likes: 1
From: Who can say?
Speaking entirely personally here, I query any CRM course on which there are only flight crew attending. What is the value if cabin crew do not mix in? When the brown stuff contacts the air conditioning, we're all in the same boat, and all equally keen to terminate the situation successfully.
Similarly, I believe there is a lot of each others' iknitial and recurrent training sessions that should be attended by the members of the crew who carry out most of their duties on the other side of the flight deck door. I would like all cabin crew to have sat in the back of a simulator on a base check at some time in their lives, just to see how hard we work when it all is lit up like a Christmas Tree, and how hard it is to make time to brief them. Yes, we know they're working hard as well to clear the cabin, secure it for emergencies, brief the pax and write their wills etc., and if we don't, we should also attend their training sessions.
Any company that does not allow FTL time and money for people to be as thoroughly informed about the duties of all other crew members, Airport fire crews, ATC and others is, IMHO, inviting disaster sooner or later.
Similarly, I believe there is a lot of each others' iknitial and recurrent training sessions that should be attended by the members of the crew who carry out most of their duties on the other side of the flight deck door. I would like all cabin crew to have sat in the back of a simulator on a base check at some time in their lives, just to see how hard we work when it all is lit up like a Christmas Tree, and how hard it is to make time to brief them. Yes, we know they're working hard as well to clear the cabin, secure it for emergencies, brief the pax and write their wills etc., and if we don't, we should also attend their training sessions.
Any company that does not allow FTL time and money for people to be as thoroughly informed about the duties of all other crew members, Airport fire crews, ATC and others is, IMHO, inviting disaster sooner or later.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 54
From: An Island Province
I am just as happy with the CA knowledge and attitude as they should be with mine; trust is earned whichever side of the flight deck door you are on. It is everyone’s personal responsibility to be qualified to undertake the duties entrusted to them in all of the circumstances envisaged by the regulators.
I am more concerned that the regulators have not thought through or appropriately judged the likely scenarios against the industry’s threats; e.g. what is more likely, a hijack attempt or an in-flight cabin fire?
Captain Stable, your personal view implies a somewhat narrow view of CRM.
I follow the Helmreich definition, - “CRM is the application of Human Factors”, and thence there are two major skill areas, cognitive and interpersonal.
Interpersonal CRM training involving both the flight deck crew and CA is important, but in balancing the necessary CRM skills, I choose to concentrate on cognitive CRM (thinking and judgement), which appear to be at the root of more accidents than other CRM aspects. Thus first of all, if the industry gets individuals to behave appropriately, then there is ground on which to build interpersonal skills.
Furthermore, in an industry with only limited training time (4 hrs / year classroom CRM ?), the focus of attention has to be on embedding CRM / HF into the daily operations; thus ‘training’ should be undertaken with the CA on every flight. The Captain (or First Officer) must demonstrate exemplary interpersonal skills in his leadership of the crew ‘team’, but just as important, the flight deck can learn from the CA; they are the people who exercise interpersonal skills with every passenger on every flight. Generally, the skills used by the CA in an emergency are automatic reactions; thus provided they follow good cognitive controls – awareness, discipline, judgement, they will achieve as much if not more than the flight deck crew will in an emergency.
I am more concerned that the regulators have not thought through or appropriately judged the likely scenarios against the industry’s threats; e.g. what is more likely, a hijack attempt or an in-flight cabin fire?
Captain Stable, your personal view implies a somewhat narrow view of CRM.
I follow the Helmreich definition, - “CRM is the application of Human Factors”, and thence there are two major skill areas, cognitive and interpersonal.
Interpersonal CRM training involving both the flight deck crew and CA is important, but in balancing the necessary CRM skills, I choose to concentrate on cognitive CRM (thinking and judgement), which appear to be at the root of more accidents than other CRM aspects. Thus first of all, if the industry gets individuals to behave appropriately, then there is ground on which to build interpersonal skills.
Furthermore, in an industry with only limited training time (4 hrs / year classroom CRM ?), the focus of attention has to be on embedding CRM / HF into the daily operations; thus ‘training’ should be undertaken with the CA on every flight. The Captain (or First Officer) must demonstrate exemplary interpersonal skills in his leadership of the crew ‘team’, but just as important, the flight deck can learn from the CA; they are the people who exercise interpersonal skills with every passenger on every flight. Generally, the skills used by the CA in an emergency are automatic reactions; thus provided they follow good cognitive controls – awareness, discipline, judgement, they will achieve as much if not more than the flight deck crew will in an emergency.
