If your FO puts you down in subtle ways...
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
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Malcontented guys need to be warned, only once, then reported to the fleet manager for his decision...which in many cases is demotion, or termination.
The fight deck is run by only one guy (or gal)...the Captain.
If those in the RHS have something constructive to say, fine.
Sarcastic comments have absolutely no place on the flight deck...especially from the co-pilot side.
Likewise for the Captain.
Treat the guy (gal) in the RHS with respect.
If that doesn't work...see above.
The fight deck is run by only one guy (or gal)...the Captain.
If those in the RHS have something constructive to say, fine.
Sarcastic comments have absolutely no place on the flight deck...especially from the co-pilot side.
Likewise for the Captain.
Treat the guy (gal) in the RHS with respect.
If that doesn't work...see above.
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The best in the world... of course!!!
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Nice discussion:
411
You maybe surprised to discover that in some airlines the people on the CRM department do not have any real knowledge about real CRM techniques, even the basics about pilot stereotypes.
Therefore, do not take things for granted that if the captain reports a F/O with this stereotype that the matter will be handled with the utmost professionalism and honesty.
The “character” which was the reason to originate this thread, falls right inside on the ACE stereotype, with a bit more of information it will not be difficult to find that he possibly falls on the “EGO ACE” stereotype, and that’s serious .
All depends were you are working.
This kind of cockpit incidents are becoming more and more common in today’s aviation.
It is difficult for a professional and mature aviator to cope with a person working with him in the cockpit always making acid remarks about him.
Mercurius
411
You maybe surprised to discover that in some airlines the people on the CRM department do not have any real knowledge about real CRM techniques, even the basics about pilot stereotypes.
Therefore, do not take things for granted that if the captain reports a F/O with this stereotype that the matter will be handled with the utmost professionalism and honesty.
The “character” which was the reason to originate this thread, falls right inside on the ACE stereotype, with a bit more of information it will not be difficult to find that he possibly falls on the “EGO ACE” stereotype, and that’s serious .
All depends were you are working.
This kind of cockpit incidents are becoming more and more common in today’s aviation.
It is difficult for a professional and mature aviator to cope with a person working with him in the cockpit always making acid remarks about him.
Mercurius
Join Date: May 2003
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I've been trough this problem more than once, and I know it's VERY annoying, to the point it can disgust you of the whole job and even think about changing airline! Really!
Here is my personal story: when I was in the RHS, I must admit I was aggressive with quite a few Captains, and I was a real master of the psycological war against them!
Now that I'm more grown up, I know that's bad.
Sometimes I tell me I shouldn't have behaved like that, some other times I tell me I had good reasons for doing so.
Both pov are true.
After an amazing start as a bush pilot in darkest Africa, where I felt like God and developed remarkable strenghts, my beginnings in the airline industry took place in a young company, on a turboprop, so I flew with Captains coming from various backgrounds, mostly general aviation, and I still think most of them were very poor pilots and very weak captains.
Needless to say, I have witnessed incredible things, and saved the day more than once.
Learning extremely fast, I actually became smarter than most of them, and I couldn't resist the temptation to make subtle and sarcastic comments when the situation was.... a bit pathetic.
Just an example, how would you feel if your Captain directs you to turn the airconditioning off before boarding, during summer, with the cabin already an oven, because in doing so the switches are already set up for startup - wich will take place 15 minutes later?
You can imagine...
So, the factors affecting this matter are a few:
Does your FO really have a point?
Do you really deserve his respect? (unfortunately this is not always the case).
What is the culture in your company? CRM stilish or macho stilist?
When I moved to the LHS, of course I was confronted with quite a few arrogant FO, but their motivation was the jealousy, especially because of my age.
My efforts were directed toward CRM, but ironically the result was the opposite of what expected: the slightest comment of mine produced a vivid resentment in the FO.
I had to fill various reports... but...
When it comes to reports, I have been in companies where they had absolutely NO effects, our bosses having the same consistency of molluscs, and in others where you can obtain a slight reprimand...
Nowadays it is rare to hear "The fight deck is run by only one guy (or gal)...the Captain."
In certain companies, too many copilots just think they become Captains when they are pilot flying, and they hide behind the CRM principles with the only goal of putting down the Captain.
That's a very subtle game, but in my case, after having suffered a few years trying to be "too correct", I solved this problem changing completely my attitude:
surprisingly, perhaps, since I purposely turned into a tough, rude, too rude sometimes, but much more sincere, genuine, open and even funny (sometimes) Captain, this problem has gone...
I have noticed that today, when I make a remark to the FOs, they don't feel hurt at all, on the contrary they take it almost with pleasure (the pleasure to learn, I'm sure!), like in a game, because I give them plenty of remarks - in a funny way, even swearing!
I don't agree with you all, when the FO makes an unpleasant comment about the 20 min block time, no "correct" reply will do the trick, as he probably is a master of the psychological war against you, knows all the possible replies and above all knows very well how to hide behind CRM to subtly "override" you all the time.
What would I reply him?
Something like "If you don't stop with your rubbish I'll kick your a§§ out of this plane, you old ******!"
Of course in my mother language that sounds much better.
Do it in a funny way, purposely exagerating, like in a movie, and you'll see...
Everybody will find it funny and become more honest, open and sincere.
LEM
Here is my personal story: when I was in the RHS, I must admit I was aggressive with quite a few Captains, and I was a real master of the psycological war against them!
Now that I'm more grown up, I know that's bad.
Sometimes I tell me I shouldn't have behaved like that, some other times I tell me I had good reasons for doing so.
Both pov are true.
After an amazing start as a bush pilot in darkest Africa, where I felt like God and developed remarkable strenghts, my beginnings in the airline industry took place in a young company, on a turboprop, so I flew with Captains coming from various backgrounds, mostly general aviation, and I still think most of them were very poor pilots and very weak captains.
Needless to say, I have witnessed incredible things, and saved the day more than once.
Learning extremely fast, I actually became smarter than most of them, and I couldn't resist the temptation to make subtle and sarcastic comments when the situation was.... a bit pathetic.
Just an example, how would you feel if your Captain directs you to turn the airconditioning off before boarding, during summer, with the cabin already an oven, because in doing so the switches are already set up for startup - wich will take place 15 minutes later?
You can imagine...
So, the factors affecting this matter are a few:
Does your FO really have a point?
Do you really deserve his respect? (unfortunately this is not always the case).
What is the culture in your company? CRM stilish or macho stilist?
When I moved to the LHS, of course I was confronted with quite a few arrogant FO, but their motivation was the jealousy, especially because of my age.
My efforts were directed toward CRM, but ironically the result was the opposite of what expected: the slightest comment of mine produced a vivid resentment in the FO.
I had to fill various reports... but...
When it comes to reports, I have been in companies where they had absolutely NO effects, our bosses having the same consistency of molluscs, and in others where you can obtain a slight reprimand...
Nowadays it is rare to hear "The fight deck is run by only one guy (or gal)...the Captain."
In certain companies, too many copilots just think they become Captains when they are pilot flying, and they hide behind the CRM principles with the only goal of putting down the Captain.
That's a very subtle game, but in my case, after having suffered a few years trying to be "too correct", I solved this problem changing completely my attitude:
surprisingly, perhaps, since I purposely turned into a tough, rude, too rude sometimes, but much more sincere, genuine, open and even funny (sometimes) Captain, this problem has gone...
I have noticed that today, when I make a remark to the FOs, they don't feel hurt at all, on the contrary they take it almost with pleasure (the pleasure to learn, I'm sure!), like in a game, because I give them plenty of remarks - in a funny way, even swearing!
I don't agree with you all, when the FO makes an unpleasant comment about the 20 min block time, no "correct" reply will do the trick, as he probably is a master of the psychological war against you, knows all the possible replies and above all knows very well how to hide behind CRM to subtly "override" you all the time.
What would I reply him?
Something like "If you don't stop with your rubbish I'll kick your a§§ out of this plane, you old ******!"
Of course in my mother language that sounds much better.
Do it in a funny way, purposely exagerating, like in a movie, and you'll see...
Everybody will find it funny and become more honest, open and sincere.
LEM
