LDG Lights ON = Cleared for T/O
Join Date: Dec 2001
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In an effort to increase bulb-life, some companies don't use taxi and navigation lights during daytime operations. Some don't use the landing lights during daytime and simply rely on taxi lights for take-off and landing - preserving landing light bulds for night-time.
The strobe lights on some Avro RJ100s are only activated by weight off wheels - with no manual over-ride, the strobe lights only flash when the a/c is airborne.
Clearly there's a long way to go before the use of a/c lighting is standardised.
In the meanwhile, if you cant remember if you've been cleared to take-off or land, rather than looking at the position of a light switch surely it's safer to ask ATC for confirmation.
The strobe lights on some Avro RJ100s are only activated by weight off wheels - with no manual over-ride, the strobe lights only flash when the a/c is airborne.
Clearly there's a long way to go before the use of a/c lighting is standardised.
In the meanwhile, if you cant remember if you've been cleared to take-off or land, rather than looking at the position of a light switch surely it's safer to ask ATC for confirmation.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Always thought that Nav lights were mandatory, unless MEL'ed inop. As far as saving the bulbs, have to say from experience that its rare that they burn out. Additionally it seems penny wise and dollar foolish as far a safety.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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We follow the procedure outlined by Captain Stable there.
If there are birds around (vultures and kite birds, since we are speaking here of West Africa) then we put the landing lights on flashing for takeoff, along with the weather radar selected 'on'.
On our aircraft the taxi lights are often indistinguishable from the landing lights while the towers usually seem not to notice whatever is going on out the window anyway. Sometimes one is asked for a postion report either just entering the flare or else having already landed and cleared.
After takeoff we switch to 'recognition' until passing FL100 to save on light bulbs.
I usually put the landing lights on 'flashing' for landing, since we often have birds present, especially when they are mowing the grass. Vultures can be very hard to see and they tend to dive into you when you pass under them.
If there are birds around (vultures and kite birds, since we are speaking here of West Africa) then we put the landing lights on flashing for takeoff, along with the weather radar selected 'on'.
On our aircraft the taxi lights are often indistinguishable from the landing lights while the towers usually seem not to notice whatever is going on out the window anyway. Sometimes one is asked for a postion report either just entering the flare or else having already landed and cleared.
After takeoff we switch to 'recognition' until passing FL100 to save on light bulbs.
I usually put the landing lights on 'flashing' for landing, since we often have birds present, especially when they are mowing the grass. Vultures can be very hard to see and they tend to dive into you when you pass under them.
Join Date: May 2002
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I should, perhaps, point out that Rananim is using USA-speak in his post above.
For those who live in the ICAO world, "cleared position and hold" does not mean clear to the holding point, it means enter, line up and wait".
The USA is waiting for the rest of ICAO to adopt their illogical terminology.
For those who live in the ICAO world, "cleared position and hold" does not mean clear to the holding point, it means enter, line up and wait".
The USA is waiting for the rest of ICAO to adopt their illogical terminology.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Runway incursions are one of the most significant safety risks amenable to technical amelioration at present, IMHO.
(Fatigue is a whole different topic)
I'm therefore firmly in the 'ON the active? All lights ON' camp. Any other traffic can make the *safe* assumption - I'm rolling, or will be as soon as I'm cleared.
Given the magnitude of the risks, 'lightbulb costs' is one of the silliest arguments I've heard in quite some time. Beancounters should be ineligible for airline employment unless they have at least a CPL/IR...
R1
(Fatigue is a whole different topic)
I'm therefore firmly in the 'ON the active? All lights ON' camp. Any other traffic can make the *safe* assumption - I'm rolling, or will be as soon as I'm cleared.
Given the magnitude of the risks, 'lightbulb costs' is one of the silliest arguments I've heard in quite some time. Beancounters should be ineligible for airline employment unless they have at least a CPL/IR...
R1
Join Date: May 2001
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To all you guys who care about these things, please stay out of your training department. I don't mean to offend, I am just talking from past experience. The airline I work for got some instructors who were very interested in this topic. Now, four FSM revisions later trying to learn the taxi/landing light policy is a nightmare. Let me try to some it up (by the way this is on the CRJ200)...
any electrical power on the aircraft = nav light
before engine start = nav + beacon
Taxi (day- good visibility) = recog/taxi light
Taxi (day- low visibility) = recog/taxi light + nose landing light
Taxi (night) = recog/taxi light + the nose landing light + the logo light
Position and hold (day) = strobes+recog/taxi light
Position and hold (night) = strobes + recog/taxi+nose landing light + Logo light
Cleared for takeoff (day or night) = all external lights on
After takeoff (3000AGL) = landing lights off, all other lights remain on
Climb (10000MSL) = wing inspection+logo+recog/taxi off, only beacon and nav on, seatbelt sign off or off then on (sterile cockpit)
Descent (10000MSL, day) = taxi light on, seatbelt sign on or if all ready on, off then on.
Descent (10000MSL, night) = taxi light + logo + wing inspection + seatbelt sign dance
Cleared for approach = left or right landing light (depending on runway assignment) + seatbelt sign off then on
Cleared to land = all landing lights on
Taxi in day/night =it all starts over again.
And for those of you who are wondering, YES these are big items during line checks.
BBB
any electrical power on the aircraft = nav light
before engine start = nav + beacon
Taxi (day- good visibility) = recog/taxi light
Taxi (day- low visibility) = recog/taxi light + nose landing light
Taxi (night) = recog/taxi light + the nose landing light + the logo light
Position and hold (day) = strobes+recog/taxi light
Position and hold (night) = strobes + recog/taxi+nose landing light + Logo light
Cleared for takeoff (day or night) = all external lights on
After takeoff (3000AGL) = landing lights off, all other lights remain on
Climb (10000MSL) = wing inspection+logo+recog/taxi off, only beacon and nav on, seatbelt sign off or off then on (sterile cockpit)
Descent (10000MSL, day) = taxi light on, seatbelt sign on or if all ready on, off then on.
Descent (10000MSL, night) = taxi light + logo + wing inspection + seatbelt sign dance
Cleared for approach = left or right landing light (depending on runway assignment) + seatbelt sign off then on
Cleared to land = all landing lights on
Taxi in day/night =it all starts over again.
And for those of you who are wondering, YES these are big items during line checks.
BBB
Join Date: May 2002
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I don't think it is fair to dismiss it as 'rubbish' Prayboy. It is how a particular company wants it's aircraft operated, obviously after some thought and discussion, the object of the exercise being safety. A bit long winded, unnecessarily complicated perhaps but certainly not 'rubbish'!
FWA NATCA- Roger that. When a jet's crew mistakenly sidestepped or misidentified DFW's runway 17R for 17C, I wondered if the MD-80 crew, which was told to shutdown its engines (major weather delay) ON the runway, had either its nacelle or even brighter ground flood lights on. Maybe they would have been seen by the crew in the other plane? It sounds crazy, but I turn on both switches for the ground floods every time I taxi on or across a runway-even in the daytime. It might be easier to always remember this at night, and it could save somebody's "butt" (bum) or job one day. Obsessive or not, just two small switches need to be flipped.
Luckily, the landing aircraft at DFW missed the plane which (bizarrely) was parked on a primary runway at a huge hub airport....and what helped to allow the Captain to keep his job was the fact that he never tried to cover-up or lie about his mistake (how could he?).
PS-another topic, but that incident reminds me: my airline does NOT require us to say "loc active..... glideslope active" on visual approaches, although navaids are required for a back-up, even at night. Why not make the call-out?
Luckily, the landing aircraft at DFW missed the plane which (bizarrely) was parked on a primary runway at a huge hub airport....and what helped to allow the Captain to keep his job was the fact that he never tried to cover-up or lie about his mistake (how could he?).
PS-another topic, but that incident reminds me: my airline does NOT require us to say "loc active..... glideslope active" on visual approaches, although navaids are required for a back-up, even at night. Why not make the call-out?
