Atlantic ferry flight
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
Atlantic ferry flight
Managed to wriggle my way into ferrying a Cessna 421 from Europe to the USA.
PIC is an experienced guy who's done it all before.
Would still like any advice or experience from you people that have done this before so I don't look like a complete
when it's my turn to say something.
Any info appreciated.
PIC is an experienced guy who's done it all before.
Would still like any advice or experience from you people that have done this before so I don't look like a complete
when it's my turn to say something.
Any info appreciated.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Essex uk
It might sound obvious but do make sure that you have a visa. Ferry flights do not count for the USA visa waiver programme.
Make absolutly certain that you have enough fuel to divert from over head Narsarsuaq. The weather can change very quickly there and as its only an NDB/DME approach the minimums are high. (yes I know you will be doing it on the GPS but!!)
Make sure that you have a pee bag (can buy them from transair) even if the aircraft has a pee tube it may not have been used for a long time and might be blocked.
Battery heated socks and hand warmers always worked for me (a gliding club may be able to tell you where to get some) If the heater packs up you will get very cold, very quickly. The cold at -30 starts effecting your mental descision making as well. Which is why two crew are safer in that situation.
Even if the other pilot is experienced, always feel free to question him. I did over eighty transatlantics in various general aviation aircraft (C172 to B200) and sometimes its easy to lose sight of the vitally important things because you're in a C421. Pressurised, de-iced etc.
Do think about what would happen if the systems stopped working. If the aircraft has come from a humid environment moisture may be in the pipes for the de-icing system. At temps below freezing it can freeze and you suddenly have no deice. Ensure you test it at altitude as soon as you can.
Personally I would add Ispropoline (spellings probably wrong)Alcohol to the fuel. (Can get that at Wick airport) It can prevent injector icing. Not very common but gives you a real good wake up call when both engines start to run roughly.
Finally do NOT think about buying a book by Ed Carlson "flying the Atlantic safely" I personally feel that it has no useful value whatsoever and at times borders on the dangerous.
Enjoy your trip
Make absolutly certain that you have enough fuel to divert from over head Narsarsuaq. The weather can change very quickly there and as its only an NDB/DME approach the minimums are high. (yes I know you will be doing it on the GPS but!!)
Make sure that you have a pee bag (can buy them from transair) even if the aircraft has a pee tube it may not have been used for a long time and might be blocked.
Battery heated socks and hand warmers always worked for me (a gliding club may be able to tell you where to get some) If the heater packs up you will get very cold, very quickly. The cold at -30 starts effecting your mental descision making as well. Which is why two crew are safer in that situation.
Even if the other pilot is experienced, always feel free to question him. I did over eighty transatlantics in various general aviation aircraft (C172 to B200) and sometimes its easy to lose sight of the vitally important things because you're in a C421. Pressurised, de-iced etc.
Do think about what would happen if the systems stopped working. If the aircraft has come from a humid environment moisture may be in the pipes for the de-icing system. At temps below freezing it can freeze and you suddenly have no deice. Ensure you test it at altitude as soon as you can.
Personally I would add Ispropoline (spellings probably wrong)Alcohol to the fuel. (Can get that at Wick airport) It can prevent injector icing. Not very common but gives you a real good wake up call when both engines start to run roughly.
Finally do NOT think about buying a book by Ed Carlson "flying the Atlantic safely" I personally feel that it has no useful value whatsoever and at times borders on the dangerous.
Enjoy your trip
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 353
From: UK
Agree with Classic Crew.
Get photos of Narsarsuaq or even better beg a big jet simulator demo of the approach. Respect the minima, mine were 20/20 blue and you had to have been there before. If it is 20/20 blue, take the scenic fiord route, it might just save you one day. Similar issues apply at Vagar, Reykjavik, Sondrestom, Iqualuit, and Gothab (last ditch).
Take a good survival kit; very useful during refuel and essential at some night stops.
Plan for and have available, options for all eventualities. Engine out, de-icing failure, pressurization failure, fuel feed problems, fuel leaks. Ensure that you have good and reliable comms. Listen out on 121.5; there is also a chat freq for relays via the big jets up above. Even the standard route is fatiguing, do not over stretch flight time, beware airfield closing times, and available daylight. Brush up on DR nav and plotting. Relax and enjoy the trip.
Get photos of Narsarsuaq or even better beg a big jet simulator demo of the approach. Respect the minima, mine were 20/20 blue and you had to have been there before. If it is 20/20 blue, take the scenic fiord route, it might just save you one day. Similar issues apply at Vagar, Reykjavik, Sondrestom, Iqualuit, and Gothab (last ditch).
Take a good survival kit; very useful during refuel and essential at some night stops.
Plan for and have available, options for all eventualities. Engine out, de-icing failure, pressurization failure, fuel feed problems, fuel leaks. Ensure that you have good and reliable comms. Listen out on 121.5; there is also a chat freq for relays via the big jets up above. Even the standard route is fatiguing, do not over stretch flight time, beware airfield closing times, and available daylight. Brush up on DR nav and plotting. Relax and enjoy the trip.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
I used to fly with a former ferry pilot who had the misfortune of ditching 2 hours out from Newfoundland. After 26 hours in an open liferaft he was rescued by a passing fishing boat.
His advice to me was:
(1) Keep your immersion suite and life jacket on - no matter how hot you feel.
(2) Make sure that your liferaft is suitable for North Atlantic conditions, i.e. it is covered has an adequate food and water on board, has a good (strong) sea anchor etc.
BTW he made another 20 ferry trips after his swim. He did, however, invested in the "Hilton of all liferafts” (his words).
His advice to me was:
(1) Keep your immersion suite and life jacket on - no matter how hot you feel.
(2) Make sure that your liferaft is suitable for North Atlantic conditions, i.e. it is covered has an adequate food and water on board, has a good (strong) sea anchor etc.
BTW he made another 20 ferry trips after his swim. He did, however, invested in the "Hilton of all liferafts” (his words).
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
From: Near LOACH intersection
Hopefully, they will install cabin tanks and bypass Narsarsuaq.
Learn your position reporting requirements and weather, weather, weather. Hurry up though, after 1 Oct it gets real cold out there!
Learn your position reporting requirements and weather, weather, weather. Hurry up though, after 1 Oct it gets real cold out there!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire
Visa Requirement
If you are running out of time to get a B1/2 visa then you could land at an airport near to border. Get a taxi/Bus to the crossing point, (Take dollars I think only 7 but don't quote me) then back to a/c.
We did it at Thunder Bay.
I know it's a faff but at least you can do the trip.
We did it at Thunder Bay.
I know it's a faff but at least you can do the trip.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
From: Herefordshire
Atlantic Ferry Flight
What a most impressive collection of postings...congrats to all contributors. I took all these precautions about 20 years ago when the Bonanza I was Atlantic ferrying suffered an engine failure....2 hours out of Rekjavik.. managed a restart (miraculously) and kept my feet dry but all that kit and preparation could well have saved the day, (NO it wasn't finger trouble! Foil seal left in one of the ferry tanks by kindly engineer!)
