AAI losing pilots
 

Intersting developments at Air Atlanta this week. A whole bunch of pilots are leaving for greener pastures in the East. There is a rumour that AAI need another 80 pilots to cover their commitments for the summer. I wonder where they are going to access type rated, current, pilots of those numbers?

yes this is true.
Hope it improves the pay and conditions here once the shortage starts.
At least we are working now, but we are all looking for better jobs.

I would not say "ALL are looking for better paying jobs with better conditions" but I would have to agree that many are looking and applying.....

End of the month and still no roster......:confused:

A whole bunch of pilots?
Must be from the 767 crowd, I only know of maybe a small number that might be leaving the 747 group.

Yes 18 wheeler, it is the 767.
However if there were more jobs available for the Jurassic pilots they would be on their way as well I have no doubt

AAI...not a bad job, if you like seasonal work, but that just does not suit the younger crowd...with good reason. Too many kids to feed, and a few of the older guys, too many wives to look after.
OTOH, IF (and a very big IF) they could get their maintenance in order (as in....serviceable tags in sight, not as in 1998 according to the UK CAA), not a bad lot...notwithstanding.
Wonder if the house cleaning has been completed in order for a CAA certificate?:rolleyes:

411
can you ever post re AAI without a note about 1998?
It was resolved in 1 weekend! and the CAA was completely satisfied all was in order.
But regards the job, yes they do have to bring their employment practices in line. As long as they are willing to hire short term people, they will have to expect high turnover, and the resultant loss of training costs.
Perhaps it is time for AAI to start looking at their employees as more of an asset, and less a short term solution to contracts.

...long weekend?
 

Canadair,
A long weekend you say...seem to remember it was seven days plus...
A long UK weekend perhaps?:rolleyes:
Not to mention the notice they had...............:eek:

Apparently the Icelandic Flight School is to start a B767 course, something to do with AAI. The candidates, who pay for the rating are supposed to get at least line training on AAI a/c. There was a Phsyco test with just over 600 questions and lasted for a hole day.(they did get a lunch break)
Probably a new system, the ones that fail get taken on!:D

Please, AAI have given many out of work pilots work when many " TOP AIRLINES " were puting them on the scrap heap. It is clear what you sign up for.

Many of the Ansett pilots were happy to get work
Many of the Canada 3000 pilots were happy to get work.

411A please change the record

Facts speak foir themselves..
 

Indeed they do planemad, the UK CAA was watching for many months yet AAI looked the other way....maybe they have now woken up...or maybe not.:rolleyes:
Time will tell...and so will the CAA.

411
your memory seems to be letting you down mate, the CAA expressed concern on a Friday aft, and asked AAI to come up with supporting documentation, the audit took place the following monday and all was found acceptable by the CAA, operations resumed.
Agreed that the jobs for both ex Ansett and C3 guys came up with great timing, BUT, these same guys are more than prepared to leave for better opportunities, and continue to do so.
So, is`nt it time for AAI to realise this, and do something to make it a more desirable place to stay? it would not take much, just some form of security, an employment contract allowing for time off, and many would choose to stay. Most agree the work envinronment is good, and the company has a bright future, they just want to know they will be a part of it.

canadair

Yes, would agree that with changes, AAI would be a better place to work. Communication with employees was never a strong point, but OTOH, personally know guys that worked there in the early ninetys, and from their comments, not much has changed since that time. They continue to serve a nitch in the market, and probably will continue to do so, so long as they do not go head to head out of their league.
It certainly suits the guys that only want to fly seasonally.

Yes Canadair...better conditions like, a recogniseable contract ( not one drawn up by someone who would be better suited as a loan shark)... rosters at least 2 days in advance......basings.......advance notice of your FORCED vacations......spot of leave without going off pay etc.etc.etc.....

Some great guys to work with but, oh for a roster!

Who exactly are these 767 guys going East to join??

At present there are numerous Asian operators who are hiring, or so I believe.

411A obviously has a little knowledge of Atlanta which is now well out of date.I don't work for them,but a best friend does,and he regularly tells me of the goings on in AAI. It would be nice if AAI's work,particularly on the 767 was seasonal as 411A suggests,as it would ease the leave situation.The only seasonal bit left is the Excel contract which reduced from three to one plane over last winter.Those two spare aircraft were used almost immediately on other contracts which are continuous,and more and more work is appearing all the time.The Ozzies are probably leaving AAI so they can have a small amount of regular home life,as the Far Eastern companies they are going to,are not only based closer to home,but also have a commuting system of rostering.One of the niggles my mate has with Atlanta,which has been mentioned in previous postings,is that if you are Icelandic,you are on a special local 'golden balls'contract..paid year round whether sick or on leave,3 weeks on 3 weeks at home..every Christmas and new year off..pick of the postings ..and so on!The rest of the non Icelandic crews have to run around taking any leftover leave opportunities and doing the s...t contracts,and touching their forelock as they do.No pay when sick,no pay when on leave,no roster or at least inefficient rostering by (said to be)lovely people who have little rostering experience and who frequently leave the company as they find the pressure too great,based miles away from the coal face,monosyllabic communications if any,a contracting company which is owned by AAI and therefore not working for its contractors interests..just AAI's... are just a few of the things my mate tells me about down the pub(my other mates are ex-AFX or still with them,so we have happy evenings together!The AFX crowd seem more cheerfull at the moment..they even buy a round occasionally,so they must be getting paid!)) My mate with AAI,says that the maintenance is fine,and that the decision by AAI to start AAI Europe(or is it AAI uk?)will mean even higher standards being imposed.His worry is wondering if the costs envolved with those higher standards will not bring the whole thing tumbling down.Maintenance,rostering,pay,conditions etc will all have to improve to gain the AOC..and costs will soar...there will be interesting times ahead..and many work jobs created.
But then he is happy doing what he does,even though he's miles from home,so it does suit some.
I flew a Cessna411A once...it was a CofA testflight..and the only way to have got it through would have been to cheat on the single engine climb check..so it failed.Obviously 411A takes his nom de PPRuNe from somewhere else!

abra,

Quite the contrary, have owned one for quite some time. In fact, delivered several direct from the factory, flew 'em in charter service in the 60's (along with a lot of other folks, desirable aeroplane then), no problems found. You just have to know how..:)

Most of your comments about the concerned airline are right out of the past...as in, poor scheduling, no/late roster, local favoritism, poor communications...and been that way for a very long time. Glad to hear about the maintenance improvement, guess 1998 was a wake-up call for them. Personally found the seasonal work quite to my satisfaction...don't think I would care to keep up the pace all year 'round. The leave situation apparently hasn't changed either, but personally found that if I told 'em when I intended to go, the roster (such as it was) was arranged accordingly. Worked for me anyway.
Some folks used the inhouse contracting agency, and their pay was always late, sometimes very late. Personally used an outside agency...always paid on time. Much better arrangement.

411A said,
“Glad to hear about the maintenance improvement, guess 1998 was a wake-up call for them. “

I hope that this is a wake up call for you, 411A and that you let go of what happened 1998.
Please stop going on about it, there is no need for you to bring it up ad nauseam. Let me assure you that there is nothing wrong with the maintenance these days.

Also 411A said,
“Some folks used the in house contracting agency, and their pay was always late, sometimes very late.”

Would you be able to let go for this one as well, 411A?
My pay is always on time and I am with their in house contracting agency.

In general I am happy to read your comments, but stop dredging up the past, move on......

What has been written about AAI is in basic terms right. They are loosing pilots, a fact that will become a very real problem for AAI in the coming months.

Nobody is to blame except the management itself, because they keep their crews working the longest known periods in the business and for very low salary to say at least. Abra comments about “golden balls contract” is both right and wrong. There is a group of people, not all icelanders though, that AA has kept as they need to secure themselves a minimum number of crews at all time. Those (better paid) pilots are make up the base of crews that AA wants to have available long term, sor all year round projects.But there are many icelanders with AAI today that dont work under that “golden balls” contract. In fact, if anything those pilots (most ex-icelandicair) work on ACE lowest scale pay and to top things have to face the most strict tax environment in the world. But for many others I think that ACE deal, given some changes in terms and conditions, could be made to work for us. But surely it must change. Othervise people will just give up and leave.
Air Atlanta has grown immensely. Its a lively work place. The biggest problem is still the same it was 10 years ago. They make good firefighters (dealing with occuring problems on day to day basis). But what needs to happen is preventing those fires (problems) to break out in the first place. One of the first things they seriously need not only to consider but actually DO, is to work out better working conditions for their employees. Should that happen, not only would AA not run into problems like they are doing now but AA would actually be a good place to work. Benefit to both.
:cool:

Poor old 411A - still trying to get mileage out of an audit that was initiated by a false report from a disgruntled sacked lame.
The audit showed Air Atlanta was conforming to CAA regulations and the paperwork was flawless. They (AAI) were never challenged again!

Please get into general aviation 411A or something else to get your mind off not getting a contract renewal by Air Atlanta all those years ago.

Let it go Mate!

Contract.......?
 

Yes, Earl, that be the one.
Can remember folks had to actually call Iceland at least twice a month to chase down their salary, oddly enough even some of the Icelandic F/O's complained about this.

Could be now tho that with enough business, times have changed....or maybe not.

Outside agency always better.

I have just returned home after a very pleasant stay in the Carribean courtesy of AAI and was able to have a chat with the CP. I got the impression that they are aware of the impending problems and, hopefully things may change. Remember there have been management changes and fleet changes in the last 18 months plus a new major shareholder, all of which must put pressure on the old guard to 'smell the coffee'. We will see. Personally I find the job a great deal of fun, especially after years of IT charter.

According to internal information the new airline is called Air Atlanta Europe and will start with one 767 with more in the summer. I hear they are looking to offer a core group of 767 pilots year round UK contracts based at Gatwick.

Totally agree with Woodpidgeon, ABDC and Canadair.
The improvements we have seen over the years seam to be limited in the most part to the MX department, which has made great strides to improve internal quality and personnel relations. It should be noted that the majority of MX are also on a contract overseen by the big A, however they have (through sticking together en mass) managed to negotiate paid days off.
It is sad to see all these good people leaving, but for the want of some simple necessary contractual changes.
I think we are all agreed, but for a few changes this could be such a good company to work for. I just hope they wake up before it is all too late.

411A, You never had your facts right when you went on your first vitriolic hate campaign, shortly after your contract was “not renewed”.
Your tone seams to have softened over the years, but you never managed to get the facts straight.
Still don’t think that AAI will be renewing your contract any time soon.
Was it a good swap the L1011 for the 411A?

Changes...maybe
 

Flybob,

Have owned my personal aeroplane long before AAI, and have found it quite useful for business...and that business now is recruiting and managing pilots, and yes, with considerable success.
Glad to hear that AAI have improved in the maintenance department, was long overdue. As to the working conditions for the pilots in AAI, wish them well but suspect that not all that much has changed, and from some of the comments on this forum, definately have not. In fact, it may have gone downhill just a bit for when I was there was always paid for off/vacation days...seems that is not the norm now. With the surplus of available pilots now, suspect that will not change either.
Time will tell

Surplus of Jar licenced and type rated experienced 76 and 74 drivers?

If you make a living out of this and make bland statements like that....well I rest my case.

Just ask...
 

Flybob,

Give a call to one or two reputable European crew agencies and find out the score...you might just be surprised.

BA (just one example) has for many years been a source for experienced guys, and not likely to change anytime soon. Suspect AAI could pick and choose at their leisure for pilots, the only drawback might be the contract/lack thereof, not to forget adequate salary.

Hope you're not thinking of industrial action, old boy.:rolleyes:

411a.
Your lose grip on reality is slipping.
Firstly, what would you know about reputable contracting agencies?
Secondly, as any one knows who is around what is going on, BA has been a source for retired typed staff, Not only for AAI but for several other as well, but on a minor level only. Not enough to supply and maintain up to 12 classics, 8 x 76 and 3 x 75s.
I would guess at less than a couple of percent at best of retired capts.
We never could tempt their first officers to leave………………..?
As for contracts available:
Please feel free to check out the web sites advertising in Europe for 75 and 76 type rated personnel. (With a JAR licence).
(This would be from your aforementioned reputable agencies)
Supply and demand Old Boy, supply and demand.
I feel sure if you could apply your untold talents into providing AAI with the 40 or so crew they are missing for the summer op then you could well be on the way to making your first million.
Now back to reality…..
Industrial action? That’s your line of work!! Old Boy!

Don't believe what you hear.....
 

Flybob,

Reality? Think yours is slipping.
AAI will have no problems attracting crew for the season, irrespective of the contracts posted elsewhere...and their salaries will not increase much either. Received a CV from one of their 767 guys two months ago, he simply wanted a change. Many to take his place.
OTOH, seasonal work suits some, as you should know.
As the UK division comes on stream, their costs will rise, further holding down salaries.
IF they stick to what they know best, will do OK....we'll see.

Where are AAI's 767s based?

How about their 757s?

Thought I saw a TF-registered jet at JFK recently, or MIA. http://www.surfsidehawaii.com/aatwa.gif

I agree with Flybob, firstly in discrediting 411A who is an enduring irksome quirk of pprune, secondly that AAI certainly do not have a surplus of JAR 74 & 76 crews.

I am one who is reluctantly leaving AAI because of the lack of career provided by their non-employment policy. Otherwise, its a great place to work. Incidentally, my new company are having to train pilots off the street. Perhaps they are unaware of this endless pilot surplus on 411a's books.

Career......?
 

Awakevortice,

You make a common mistake in assuming AAI is a 'career' airline.
Except for the local folks, it is a contract airline, nothing more, nothing less. You are hired for a contract (thru their own agency, bad idea), and when the contract is finished, out you go...and has been that way for many years. Their planned UK operation 'might' be different, but don't think so.
Contract work suits some.
IF you want a career, join a large scheduled airline.
And, if you read clearly, I never indicated that they had a 'surplus'...only that they would have little difficulity in recruiting crews...and they never have.

I rest my case!

Take a chill pill dude....
 

Flybob,

Yep, ALWAYS paid, thru an outside agency (vacation, days off, the lot)...and quite handsomely too, as a senior check and training guy.

Personally know several folks who had a very difficult time collecting their dues. Bad reputation in the early days...seems better now, and it will HAVE to be if they are a UK carrier.
You sound rather dis-satisfied...having problems? You seem to have to keep defending yourself, or the concerned company.:rolleyes:

Yes in total agreement. Air Atlanta is not a career position.
Another Hajjah finished. Most crews finished 110 hrs plus in less than 28 days exceeding the Jars once again.
Trouble is that it was done in 2 separate months so no OT.
Now we begin our un scheduled vacation for who knows what length of time.
Managment claims no long term contracts for the 747 workers
at meetings held with our crews at various bases.
No representation from the outside crew handling agencies at these meetings either.
Was informed that they were not invited.

We are very fortunate for the 767 will do much better in the contract department, length etc.
Poor 747 guys, feel sorry for them, they are getting the short end of the stick.
Disagree with 411 about outside agencies, word has it that Atlanta feels they can obtain all the pilots they need without them.

to the guys on the 76, well great you feel so protected compared to the poor fellows on the 74, but you are no more insulated than the classic fleet.
You are offered the same crap employment contract, on the same terms, with the same complete lack of guaranteees.
If you take it, great, but you are certainly no better off!

NTM Why start another thread about AAI when there is one already just about alive still???