#190
 

In the UK you would have kept your tripod in the first place.:O

yeah but you might have had to use an "official" plastic bag for your liquids

Wish I had the contract for those

I was given a small official plastic bag for my small tube of shaving cream at Bristol last week by a helpful security wench. The security of the Western world was duly assured. Nothing was said about the long heavy battery on the back of my laptop that unclips in a second and becomes a very effective cosh. It's also very handy for smashing a mirror in an aircraft lav and a piece of duct tape for fixing a shard to the battery would make a very nasty weapon. The shaving cream was in polythene so everyone was happy.

:ugh:

Do not trust even in your mother
 

Has anybody ever heard of crow bars and axes among emergency equipment on board of a passengers plane?
Perhaps they have been removed thanks to the prudence of SECURITY.
Once upon a time (well before 11 September) we had also signal flare pistols.
And rifle with ammunition on the North Pole Routes.

Personally, what ticks me off the most about security is allowing people to carry on guitars. Each one represents 6 potential garrotes, and not one of them isn't oversized which creates a cascading overhead bin shortage problem onboard. Every time I see someone carrying a guitar through security like it's thier security blanket, I want to grab and smash it into toothpicks. And I say this as someone who owns/plays a couple myself.

If you can afford a ticket, you can afford to buy a hard case and check the damned thing, you hippy wannabees.

Like Jackharr, I am a retired pilot and I now avoid the hassle of airport security by traveling by coach as I have the time and it's a pleasure. Haven't come across a single numpty yet!

PukinDog, a hard case and checkin led to a friend arriving in the UK from New York and collecting a hard case. That's it; no $5000 guitar, just the case.

Point taken about the strings, but what next? Shoelaces?

Ferry crossings are fine, until the customs officers decide to strip search your car. Makes airport security look like childsplay!:E

In the case of an emergency, you would be gratefull for a guitar in the cabin. Or a nun, or better still, both!

Bfraser you were lucky!
My daughter gave me a badger shaving brush complete with a tub of shaving soap - the soap was deemed a threat and converscated.
Wife stopped me suggesting that I could use the brush as a weapon and tickle the crew to death.
Roll on the revolution.

And these mirrors are made of what material do you think?

I follow this thread now and then and sometimes a little amused. THe security level at airports is just stuppid and I cannot understand the pax accepting the whole thing.

But why is this concentratetd on the airline industry only? Are terrorists stupid? Why not bomb a train with 400 passengers or destroy the rails on a high speed link? Well, it's not my idea to give some advice, I just want to point out how different security is at the airline industry and a mass transport system which carries much more people world wide every day.

The answer is simple: The whole railway transport would brake down in a snap as it is absolutely not possible to do the same checks at all railway stations worldwide. But this shows how ridiculous all the measurements at airports are.

Why? Because some one must be the scape goat. Remember, its the 21st century! someone must be to blame, and certainly not ourselves! Ergo, the powers that be must pick (seemingly at random, although to be fair I have not seen a train driven through two huge buildings killing 3000 innocent lives yet) an industry to implement over stringent regulations upon. You must remember a few points, there are boot loads of train stations world wide, not so many airports, Airport security on all train stations would be 'infeasible' at the least. Plus! In doing so, they create a new industry out of an industry that is in a huge state of growth already. If there is money to be made, you bet someone will try to do it. Politicians are not going to complain, as it supplies jobs, always a sure winner for votes.
I do have a question though, for those nautically minded and experienced. Do cruise ships go through the same type of thing? And what's security like for those HUGE butane tankers etc?

Oh, the strings are merely the best excuse to stop the nonsense that guitars are somehow special items that don't need to adhere to the size requirement for carry-ons everyone else is expected to live by. And since every or extra checked bag(s) are routinely subject to an additional fee now and there's incentive to carry as much on as possible, it only doubles the annoyance that there is an unofficial exemption being played out.

Bad luck for your friend to be targeted by a thief, but guitars and other musical intstruments are no more subject to theft than other expensive items checked in dedicated cases (such as firearms, sporting equipment, art). Anything over the standard payout value should be insured, and very expensive items are better shipped by dedicated courier who's primary business is to keep track of and deliver the item.

I refuse to accept that guitars deserve a special size-exemption. I don't, for example, see trombone players using this tactic and taking up the bin space of 2, and a trombone player is most likely a serious musician unlike every yahoo who pretends they can play guitar.

Now that I think about it, perhaps I'll simply stuff one of my guitar cases with clothes and sundry items next time I pax and carry it on in addition to a computer bag and see how that works out for me.

Regardless of whether or not the current legislation is right or wrong one of the main factors is the lack of consitsncy of how these legislations are being enforced which can make it very confusing for operational crew.

Individual airports even within the UK interoperate the regulations differently and operate different procedures although the Department for Transport are the body ensuring the enforcement of these regulations.

The inconsistency is what generates the comments and the frustration from the crews which can pass through several staff searches of various airports within the UK, Europe or Worldwide throughout the week and certainly on an annual basis.

Security is paramount and nobody can deny this however there are basic issues and flaws in the whole system. How all airport ID's have not been linked up to a single database which is easily accesible to security by all UK airports.

The paperwork envovled for a non based personel needing to attend restricted areas possibly for maintenance etc can take up to 30 mins to complete and said person still requires an escort. Surely a single database would solve this.

Regulations should not be open to individual airports/companies interpretation and no matter what airport within the UK you travel through you should expect the same searches/procedures.

It is also strange how UK also has a more stringent security regulation in comparison to individual countries within the European Union. This causes nothing but inconvenience when it comes to transit flights within the UK from even EU contries especially if passengers are joining this flight.

No consideration is taken to staff who have to work airside who simply may not be able to afford the high prices of soft drinks in the airside shops as this amounts to a lot of money (£1.80 a bottle) over a 12 hour shift. Certain canned foods that may contain sauce are also banned. Spagghetti, Beans, Soup are also banned substances. Yes you can elect to eat something with no sauce but surely staff have a right to select what they want to eat?

How come it is possible to take a crate of cans or bottles with catering to be sold in an airside shop that was delivered by a a person presenting ID or a passport with no background check on a visitor pass? Why are they deemed less of a risk than somone who has passed a CRC check and holds a valid airport ID with a single drink or a tin of soup?

Is health compromised of those that have to work in direct sunlight for long periods at risk since staff may face skin cancer for the lack of being able to bring a bottle of sun tan lotion on site? Maybe the manufacturers are now providing compliant tubes but have not looked to be perfectly honest.

Note: The security to meet politicians in official government buildings are less stringent from past experiences.

To be honest, I've never tried breaking one but I'll happily stand corrected if they are shatter proof polycarbonate or similar. My point was that it is very easy to fashion a weapon from what is already on board. I guess Mr average terrorist is a bright chap and those training camps were not disbanded the moment they found out that we were insisting on polythene bags and confiscating nail clippers. Instead of using the mirror in the loo, they can smash the litre bottle of Gordons that was bought airside. It's a nice shade of green too so it will match their corporate colours.

It's time for profiling passengers if only our politicians would "grow a pair" and get serious on security.

All about votes & easy money
 

This issue is not about security it is about protecting the reputations of the politicians from the media when the a terrorist act happens, it lets them stand up infront of the camera's and say they had taken appropriate action.

Meanwhile in this atmosphere of paranoia a bunch of chancer's who twenty years ago would have been selling double glazing have picked up the security issue, ramped up the paranoia a few notches and made a lot of money employing bottom grade staff and charging premium prices using the added value of the security tag as justification for this profiteering.

Add airport managers who have been emerssed in the elf & safety culture and you have the recipe for the banning of baked beans and other such stupidity in the interests of national security.

The fact is we need security but the big problem for the aviation industry is how to implement a security program without the current bunch of security parasites being involved, you can bet that any attempt to remove them and replace them a realistic system will be resisted tooth & nail as they see the easy money slipping from their grasp.