Assuming the aforeprinted letter is the attempt of some abinitio F/O, please allow me to drive the wooden stake squarely through the heart of the writer.

It would appear to me, that you - and your colleagues (would you care to provide their names) - might, more than likely, be suffering from a sleep disorder (sleep apnaemia), which will result in the (temporary) cancellation of their licence(s) pending further testing, as falling asleep "regularly" is one of the symptoms of this disorder.

The same rostered hours were trialled over a cross section of employees, in different companies, and with no adverse effects being reported.
Please provide the names and the dates on which the sicknesses and fatigue levels were reportedly affected by the rostering, to allow the company to act accordingly in correcting the perceived problem areas.

Sleep disorders are common in the overall public workforce, but are undesirable in shift workers, and moreso especially aircrew, who hold serious public responsibilities whilst on duty.
It would be remiss of EZYJET to overlook such individual reported cases, without acting upon them.
We therefore look forward to you acting responsibly for the publics' sake, by advising us at your earliest possible opportunity, of your ability to safely conduct further flights, and of the names of any pilots you have been led to believe might not meet a minimum safety standard to which this company legally operates.

Etc, etc, etc.

"5.2.5.4 seems to only be working in the small bases eg. GLA EDI where they don’t do 5 real earlies 4 sectors max duities min rest."

Hotair, I think you'll find that in GLA/EDI the earlies are very early, in generally you'll start the first day at 6:00, followed by 4 days starting at around 5:00 in the morning (correction...middle of the night). All days are 4 sectors, mostly finishing around 13:00. You are right in saying that it's not min rest.

BBow

A couple of points relating to earlier comments:

The 'evidence' supported the introduction of 5/2/5/4. Fatigue data from home and overseas was used, plus the trial period data.

Quite often, under the previous 6/3, there were only 2 days off anyway between roster periods...........no great change there then, except now it's only 5 days till a break.

The implementation has been seriously under-crewed and poorly managed leading to continual changing of the agreed pattern, thus nullifying all the reasons for it's introduction.

If EZ have approached the CAA for an increase to the 900 hrs limit, they've done it very quietly without a mention to Balpa (or anyone else it seems!).

Bottom line, crew it properly, run it properly, don't change patterns and then we'll have the absolute definitive answer.

Personally, 5/3/5/4 would work a dream and give max delivery without aggro.

Kaptin,

Out of context, your reply makes sense. But here are some facts:

I was part of the trial, and it was much better than 6-3. However, what we didn't know at the time was that the crewing level was being boosted by crew from other bases. At max hours, 5254 is very hard.

We do 80% on pattern and 20% on "reserve" (off pattern, or random roster). The reserve month is meant to be just spent on standby - yet my last reserve was rostered 110 hours block, 190 hours duty.

The 5 earlies do NOT have the hours protection that CAP formerly provided. So you work 5 11 hours earlies.

I recently worked 5 10-11 hours earlies, had 2 days off, then 4 10-11 hour earlies. I can assure you that you can only do this if you go to bed at 1930. If you choose to (or have to) stay up beyond that, then you are prone to falling asleep " at the wheel".

We have had several cases of this "extreme tiredness", but people are reluctant to report it for fear of backlash. Your sickness record is part of your command assessment, and eJ are particularly hot on sickness, since we can never get a requested day off (so the sickness method is the only way).

On your random roster period, you will be swapped back and forth from earlies to lates in a working block. At all times you can be worked to 0130 into a day off, without it actually infringing into your day off.

Falling asleep on the job is not, in this case, a result of a medical condition. It is the result of repeated very long early duties and extremely high monthly totals. For London crews this is made worse by the very long time it takes to get to the crew room in the morning.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: FlapsOne, posted at the same time as you... 5354 AND an 85 hours a month limit would, I guess, halve the flow of leavers. Give us a decent rise, sector pay equal to CC and some ST and that would stop the other half!

Quote: At all times you can be worked to 0130 into a day off, without it actually infringing into your day off.

you forget to mention this cannot be rostered!! only things happening on the day can make you do this.....


5254 Trial Period was great because
a: other pilots from other bases came in to help
b: it was done on summers roster and a lot of the mornings and afternoon links that were accomplished (ai edi agp or krk sxf) on that could not be done because of no set morning or afternoon pattern (in LTN). they now polished the arrival and departure time in LTN so the flights link in handily with the 5254....


You got to be kidding me saying that we have a whole bunch of narcoleptics working for us and that after 20 years of flying I just found out that I am?!??!! Sorry sir, PURE fatigue......

eJ are actually quite good when you claim to be fatigued, I have never heard anything back from them when I did call it. Maybe for F/O's its a different cattle of fish.However the sickness thing should not be an arguement, since most Base Captains are quite up to date with the current fatigue levels on the line. Besides he is a fellow pilot. So repercussions will be few and far between.

Now we have to fight for our rights since Market Mechanics are now too in favour of our community. Lets make a stand and get a deal we deserve.....

What seems to be forgotten quite often is that if you only have two things to take care of -work and yourself- its doable.
But how many of us have families?
Kids sick etc?
To jump in bed at 1930 is a very noble target, but especially with small kids its often impossible to sleep as well immediately.

Klink,

Of course, that's the root of the problem. Mulitple long days need 7 to 8 hours sleep. Getting to sleep at 2300 means 4.5 hours sleep - do this for more than a few days on the trot and your performance really suffers. eJ are overlooking the safety issue by placing the responsibility on us (we have to call in sick if too tired), but many are reluctant to do this each and every week when others can "take the strain". Furthermore, if we cannot adjust our lives to suit the roster, we may get an email like the infamous LGW one.

This is one reason why many are changing employers rather than sacrificing their home lives.

100% after seeing that example i'm going to stay out of this disscussion as i'm beaten.
Flaps 1 5/3/5/4 would encourage crews to join EZY! the problem you have is the turnover is causing havoc to any best practice ideas:\

Kap M sounds pretty defensive - maybe he's one of the chaps who implemented this thing in the first place (the flag thing maybe is a clue!). What's more they're the people who always moan the 'kin most. As for the ab-initio dig, time and a place!

Don't know if he works for the same airline that we do! Every guy on day 5 of the earlies is totalled, but that must be due to sleep apnaemia I guess!!!!! Don't get technical now, I just call it been knackered. :8

I'm not sure I understand this?

On earlies I'm in bed by 2030 and wake at 4am. Why go to bed at 2300? If I did this I wouldn't last one day!

I used to have real problems with going to bed early but have come atuned to it now. I guess everyone is different. I'm just curious....

This is not meant as criticism by the way!

After the strike on pay rostering has to be next :E :E :E :E

Rick,

Just came to those numbers by:

1) 0515 report, 0500 at the airport (to allow for the dreaded car park bus), 0415 leave home, 0330 alarm clock; and

2) Many guys I fly with, when discussing the age old topic of "what time did you get to sleep last night" reply with 2300.

I find 2100 about right - sometimes it stretches out to 2145.

Wouldn't it be nice to sort all these problems in one fell swoop!

Try life with a young family in a three bed semi.

2100 Kids get to sleep.
2120 I get my head down.
2225 Ten month old boy balls his head off due to teething.
2228 My exhausted wife gets up to calm him down.
2232 My three year old girl wakes with the commotion and wants a story read to her.
2237 I wake and get drafted in to calm things down.
2315 I get to sleep, fitfully.
0440 Alarm goes off.
0441 I leap out of bed, glance through the curtains and can't see the other side of the road due to thick fog . . .

To get round the above I have several options:

1. Ask the airline for a slack roster!
2. Find a bigger house in the south east of Tony Blairs !!!!ty Little Britain.
3. Go and work for another low cost carrier.
4. Live apart from my family when I am on the roster.
5. Campaign publicly for responsible FTL's.
6. Quit aviation, sell up and find another country.

I am hopefully soon to face your scenario Yarpy.

OPtion 4 looks good, I think i'll move out of our house ;)

Can we have a re-print of the "infamous Gatwick email" here?

Fish out of Water
care to elaborate?

I dont think the gatwick email is anyones business, who it wasnt addressed to.

yarpy,s quote


__________________________________

6. Quit aviation, sell up and find another country

_________________________________

i thought bedfordshire was another country try living in england next time

:ok:

ps i can see where you coming from i agree with you

Yarp; this is exactly what I went through till this week; the first tooth is finally there.
Now both kids sleep better. This took about 2 months now, though. Thank God my roster was not heavy..:}

With respect to various posters above, it really dosn't matter who you work for or what your roster pattern is if you have young children going through the delights of teething and the wonderfully varied collection of baby/toddler ailments.

Unless you are downroute for a couple of nights every week of course Flaps! :}

Nightstops? Blessed relief more like...