Manchester Security
 

The other day, going through security at Manchester airport T1 I set the beeper off.

Now I don't mind being searched but this search was intrusive and I was spoken to like I was a piece of..well you know.

Now I have worked hard to get to where I am today and so I believe that I deserve a bit of respect, just in the same way that I am perfectly willing to respect anybody doing the job that they are paid to do (airport security staff included). Why did this (very young) man need to be so confrontational and disprespectful. The whole thing could have been completed with the same level of security achieved, but without anybody having to get upset.

Not only that, there were a lot of passengers witnessing this. As pilots we need to maintain an air of authority and respect amongs the flying public and this sort of epsiode will not help!

A CHIRP report is on its way as I speak.

Out of curiosity, in what way was it intrusive?

BTW, I think this should have been tacked onto another thread already running.

Well shall we say "hands everywhere" and he took out my wallet and took all the money , receipts and credit cards out!!

But whilst I consider the search to have been over the top, that is not waht really upset me, it was the confrontational attitude.

Not been to the US recently then ?

I think they top the 'know-all' attitude league. I'm practically naked in order to get through their checks nowadays.

More often than not it is the dangerous clasp on my black Casio watch that is the cause of the mayhem...

'Have a nice day sir...whilst you put your shoes, belt, watch, put the money back in your wallet, watch someone nick your bag because you been sat down waiting so long for a 'male-assist'..

But then if you pay someone peanuts, tell them that they're really important and not that they're trying to bolt the stable door etc..this is what you get.

G (US Visa Holder):cool:

I have been through the US a few times and I go out of my way to ensure that I won't set the beeper off, I have so far had no problems.

Same here, I go through US security frequently and rarely have any problems. It's a two-way street, and co-operation is a mutual obligation. It doesn't take long for the usual anti-American rhetoric to surface here.

Hi fmgc,

The answer is very simple. It was the 'air of authority' you displayed. They saw you coming a mile away, and your cards were marked immediately. The young sprog was very probably deliberately given the task of dealing with you as a further on the job training lesson in learning how to deal with those who like to give themselves an 'air of authority'. It can prove a challenge for the inexperienced sprogs and they have to learn how to overcome it. It was your lucky day, and his also. Without the opportunity you provided he would have missed out on such further training.
:O

This is a very common occurance at MAN, I know lots of female staff (ground and air) who have put complaints in due to "excessive" patting down. Does anything ever seem to get done? Well no.

As for US security, I have had nothing but problems when I travel on my concesssions over there. They mark your boarding cards as such and away you go to be interoggated by the TSA, this is not anti-american rhetoric as I love the US.

i think possibly a reason for this is at the start of every new season, new temps are recruited and maybe a little over keen at first as are new check-in staff weighing your handbaggage to the nearest lbs...i may be wrong

respect works both ways but not in this case

some crew when walking threw sometimes are very nose in the air when walking past the security staff at the check point making them feel like low-lifes...maybe this guy had experienced it a few times and although wrongly tarred all crew with the same brush....i think we may have to allow a little not so much understanding for him being like he was but look into possibly WHY..

my opinion only.

Go to Amsterdam and they will show you how a proper search is done - none of this Mickey Mouse Manchester stuff!!!

I went through Manchester as a passenger last weekend and I was commuting home in civvies and my flight case showed up an object that looked like a penknife, which obviously was not there. Anyway after searching and scanning various items for a second time they could not explain what the object was.

However the security chap took my bag off the scanner and saw my crew tag straight away and also saw my ID pass whilst searching inside and he was very apologetic for keeping me waiting. We had a quick chat and I remarked at how my bag does not normally cause a problem and he said jokingly 'we are like a coiled spring today. And also full of 5hit!!! Made me laugh.

However he said, given that you are crew then I am happy to let you go even though I can't find anything in your bag! Nice to see some common sense!

Well... as for the Isle of Man - one of the crew had their scissors removed from their nightspot bag. I was just waiting for the 'Shall I remove the thread from my trousers with the fire axe' - thankfully my colleague resisted temptation!

Here's a thought.

If one has a metalic implant of some sort (not me of course) and this sets off the beeper, do the US security demand some sort of proof of operation etc.

I believe that in the UK it's not a problem...ahem!:O

A lady very dear to my heart was subjected to nothing short of an indecent assault at Manchester T3 security last year. I work in the industry and know the difference. I made an official complaint and an enquiry was held, interestingly enough, without obtaining a statement of any kind from the victim. The outcome was predictable and the apology tendered was along the lines of "we are sorry that the required search caused distress".

I made a full report to the head of TranSec but never received the courtesy of a reply, but maybe a few waves were generated. Things do seem to have changed for the better at Manchester T3 and subsequent searches have been professional and of a decent nature.

Females wearing trousers are actually given the same search as a male. The criteria being to detect a butterfly knife strapped to the inner thigh. So all a female terrorist has to do is wear a skirt, or a male a kilt. Might be a bit a giveaway if your name is Bin Laden though!

So why do we live in the Dark Ages in the UK and still have hand searches? Why not use metal detector wands, they are good enough for the "land of the free" and they would spot the above?

I would suggest anyone male or female experiencing an inappropriate search to complain there and then to the supervisor and make an official complaint. If they refuse to listen, call the police. An indecent assault cannot be justified by the need for security surely. Maybe Diana Ross was right?

ATB,
ptc

Quite the opposite I've had no problem in the USA due to the large amounts of metal in my leg , just a bit of extra attention from the wand and a pat down on the leg.

However at Manchester it was into a back office and take off the trousers ! had I not been in an almighty rush to get home I would have demandrd to see the management.

The problem is that that would have ment the Security man would have made me miss my flight and I'm sure that this was part of his game and I did not want to play.

Next time that I am treated in this way and I am not in a rush I will take this up with the management.

At one time I had respect for the security people but as far as Manchester is concerned I regard all as low life scum ( but treat them correctly) untill the individual proves worthy of respect .

mini always sets off the beeper, metal pin in his neck, long story going back to the days when he had green baggy skin... :sad:

Usually takes a rub of the wand to satisfy the jobsworths

Will avoid MAN like the plague on the basis of this thread though...:suspect:

Went through MAN a couple of weeks ago, didn't set off the beeper but was subjected to the search anyway, not that the guy had any idea how to search me properly (I'm ex plod and know how to search).

I was annoyed but didn't bother to complain, maybe I should have

You must be an exception to the rule then. Most of the plods I know can't search.

If you bleep just ask security to use the wand. Usually a pat down reveals nothing towards the cause of the bleep. The wand should detect the offending object.

The pat down should only be used if the reason for the bleep cannot be identified or the random search requirements for objects that won't cause a bleep.

At last I will be able to take my knitting needle and nail clippers through UK security as the rules are to be relaxed shortly. Also back to proper cutlery. ;)

Security
 

fmgc,

When the incident occurred, did you ask for the senior security officer on duty to attend & did you obtain his name & that of the staff member who you had trouble with.

Have you consulted a Solicitor, with a view to laying assault charges against the security staff member concerned.

Have you consulted your union on this matter & demanded some form of action. I still consider, that BALPA appear to have kept very quiet on this subject, almost to the extent, thay just don,t care.

I would fully agree, we still need a sensible & high level of security in all sectors of the aviation industry. This security should be administered in a considerate, tactful & respectful manner on all sides.

I have actually held off posting this before but I now realise there is a problem at MAN. For the second time recently I have been asked to "step aside - just a routine check" you know the drill. First time in uniform, second in civvies. On both occasions I was subjected to a sexual assault that was so suprising I was unable to speak or react. After the second time ( last week) I vowed to never allow that to happen again. Question is how to handle such a scene? Flying Lawer... over to you.

Security
 

Just following on from ETOPS message.

Can any person (Flying Lawyer?) explain just what my rights are when transiting through security in any UK airport. I am not advocation confrontation, in fact very mush the opposite, but just where do we pax, crews, other staff etc stand on this matter.

Also can anybody advise me whom I should contact to obtain further info on this subject. Is it Dept of Transport, CAA or whatever. I have approached BALPA a couple of times & have received no help at all.

TURIN
I was recently casevaced into Glasgow from Tiree with a fractured starboard olecranon. Four days later, sporting a newly rebuilt elbow complete with titanium screws and wire, I returned to GLA to catch Loganair's Twin Otter back to the Island.

As I approached the bleeper, it suddenly ocurred to me that my new elbow might cause it some excitement, so I mentioned the fact to the security chap, who replied "no problem sir, Titanium doesn't set it off... but have you got your X-rays with you?"

I had, so he told me to pass them round the outside so they wouldn't be fogged.

Nothing but courtesy and good humour throughout - give me the Highlands and Islands every time.

Rattus

ooooohhh.....
don't get me started here....!

Been flying out of Manchester for a good few years, and to this day I still have bad feelings everytime I walk through security and set the thingymajig off.....

Now...before any half-wit slams me by saying that in this day and age I should be 110% co-operative with security measures etc etc etc blah blah blah......I have not had a security officer ONCE in Manchester search me after I set off the detector actually find what set it off in the first place.

The machine bleeps...I get searched...FINE..I object to having my knackers felt by a total stranger for a start...(I haven't even bought them dinner after all!).....why OH WHY don't they use hand held metal detectors like in the U.S?
So the guy frisks me.....and pats me on my way.....EVERY time..I think...well...what set off the machine in the first place...???

Waste of time.


Apart from the fact that when I get my medical renewed I am just waved through security to get airside past a security check point by just a mere glance at what resembles a car park pass in my car window........!!

Pathetic.

Manchester Security
 

Mondriver states: "Apart from the fact that when I get my medical renewed I am just waved through security to get airside past a security check point by just a mere glance at what resembles a car park pass in my car window........!!"

Why do you go airside for a medical renewal ??? Surely Not !!

I've gently tried to point this out on another thread, but you still don't get it do you?

Now perhaps I should ask a slightly more pointed question; can any of you think of a good reason why sometimes a detector beeps when it shouldn't and sometimes it doesn't, when it should? A half eaten Mars bar to anyone who can think outside the square.

I've given up more than emptying my pockets as I set off the detectors every time. But I just go through with a smile, as I watch them look at my shoes, etc. There seems to be no proactiveness amongst security staff or indeed the government, why on earth do they think the terorist scum will go for a shoe bomb next time? They won't, they'll try something else, totally different. Something that is not being checked for.

Was going to make some observations about some general airports, but thought better of it.

Personally I can deal with a pat down, however badly done, I find it harder to deal with luggage taking 1 hour from touchdown to the belts at LGW, and an Aviance bloke in a shabby shack telling me we hadn't been down an hour, and they couldn't unload whilst the plane is taxiing.

"i set off detectors every time" still don't get it do you?

Possibly relevant to this thread that Manchester Airport has agreed to pay a man, in an out of court settlement, £4,000 for taking two photographs of him against his wishes.

In June 2003 the man was on his way to Belfast when he was called into immigration and had two photographs taken without his permission.

Whatever next?

MP

About 5 years ago I became concerned about the level of security at Manchester. I often set the bells ringing when I went through the scanner and every time I asked what had set the alarm off only to be told after a body search "its probably your belt buckle". The staff started to treat me as a trouble maker and couldn't understand my concern that on an average day some 10%to 15% of the passengers on my aircraft were categorised as "belt buckle" passengers.

I made enquiries about security at Manchester from both FD and Cabin Crew of different companies and found the same story.........invasive and completely ineffective body searching of crews. Some of the stories I heard from the female staff were quite alarming with many complaining of inappropriate touching and retouching of intimate parts of their body by some questionable females.

I tried to make inquiries about the basic human rights of all of us both pax and crew with regard this invasive procedure considering none of us has committed a crime. I was very quickly told to wind my neck in by my company and told that Transec are a law unto themselves.

Maybe it is time to challenge the way security checks are carried out and to insist that the non invasive use of the "wand" should be the only initial form of screening. I had great sympathy with Diana Ross at the time as all this incident did was to prove how outrageous the current system is.

With the money being spent there is no excuse for treating innocent fare paying passengers and crew as criminals, infringing their human rights and with collusion of Transec, sexually and physically abusing them on a vast scale.

Effective security is a must, abuse is a disgrace.


AB

Here we go again "Let's have a go at Security again " thread.

1. FMGC . Read Kestral's post because he has hit the nail on the head regard's crew.

2. HAPZAM . If you refuse to be frisked at any UK airport you will be refused flight.

3. MONDRIVER . I would say that about 70 - 80 % of Archway Metal Detector activations are caused by the metal strengtheners found in most shoes.And as for going for your medical at Manchester (I know where you mean) you are only going controlled Landside not airsde so please get your facts right before posting :mad:

Dont forget Security staff are under extreme pressure , constantly bieng watched on cameras and by the DFT.They also have people posing as passangers carrying Knifes and other weapons strapped to all parts of there bodies ( thats why the frisks are so intrusive )

As for the person who asked why people cant just be wanded well there are allsorts of weapons out there made of Kevlar and plastic that a metal detector could not find and are just as deadly as metal ones.

Just read the post about the man and his photo. He 's not happy to have his photo taken by security but he is happy for it to be pasted on the front of the Manchester Evening Post......... What a joke :D

mikeyuk, so why are there so many "bell ringers" who have no idea why they set off the alarm.

You only have to read "Papillon" to know where the cigar tube and knife are hidden. Patting the bum all day will not detect a thing.

So the 80% who don't set off the alarm and are not searched are the real threat then!!!!!!!


Pax and crew are searched because they set off the METAL detector, the "wand" should the primary tool for locating that metal.


AB

Mikeuk,

As a security officer, if that is your considrered professional response then, well.......we are in trouble.

You are right, kestral has hit the nail on the head but it does not justify their actions. Just because some crew go through security with their noses held high, does not mean that all crew should be treated with a lack of respect. In the same way some of our passengers are horrid to our crew, would you expect our crew to be nasty to all the other passengers.

It would seem that some of you guys (not all by any means) seems to resent aircrew. Why do you think that is?

Probably because some of them read aircrew's posts about them in places like here?

Just a thought....

"
They also have people posing as passangers carrying Knifes and other weapons strapped to all parts of there bodies ( thats why the frisks are so intrusive )"

Surely the nature of the checks isn't just to pass the test posed by the DFT, what about catching those nasty people that want to blow up aeroplanes?

Considering the fact that security staff are under paid, supervisor not present when required and constant body search even if there is no "beep" when passing the metal detector????

What can we do?

I wrote to the airport authority and 6 months after a "excuse" letter arrive. Saying "our staff is on a constant pressure.... ans so and so.......

If you want to blame someone or the system, blame the big boss not the employees! Everybody knows that the big boss is always protected by politics.... and in that case again. What can we do?

Just go to israel once and you will know what is a complete security check!!!!!:( and if you move your little finger you are entering in a world of troubles.......)

My advice, keep cool when passing trough a security check!

I know it's"easy to say" but keep smilling:E

Mickyuk

1st try to copy names correctly.

2nd I suggested that a wand be used to find what caused the bleep . If that was not successful than yes a professional frisk not a touch-one up done by some pervie security chimp. Would be a bit of a farce if no staff got airside for refusing to be frisked yet bleeping merrily upon walking through an arch.

I take it that your the person who stands up whilst the seat belt sign is on endangering all those pax around you. Knows better than the crew.

The whole idea is to detect and prevent restricted items reaching and being used as a weapon on an aircraft. Don't start me on how useless the whole security issue is. If a terrorist wants to cause trouble there are numerous ways and means with items obtainable airside of any security point.

Most of the security personnel I come in contact with both professionally and as a punter conduct themselves admirably within the constraints placed upon them by the nature of thier jobs.

All remember, we are out there to move people and freight from A to B etc with minimum inconvience and cost. If we don't then the terrorist has succeed without even being present.




:E

HAPZAM :p

" If that was not successful than yes a professional frisk not a touch-one up done by some pervie security chimp "

Any wonder why Security Staff pick on people like you.


I'm not a person who stands up on an aircraft whilst the seatbelt sign is on as i'm not that thick, compaired to someone who cant stand still for about 30 - 40 seconds whilst being frisked.

Fed up of Fed's
 

Does anyone else get pissed off with the hass crew get, going in/out of the US?

If homeland security don't get you on the way in then the TSA F*#@ you over on the way out..

I'm sure there would be lots of loud pissed of Yank crews here if they were treated as bad.

Don't worry, the yank crews get the same treatment that you get. Their problem is, that if they complain about it is unpatriotic...

Yes I fully believe that flight crew and other airport staff should be searched and yes passengers should see it - it shows any 'would-be' terrorist that bribing airline / airport staff isn't necessarily an option to get Prohibited items airside.

A few other points to make:

Requesting a 'wand' when you activate the arch isn't approved by DfT, the DfT require that hand search is completed as it is more effective at identifying concealed items (that may not necessarily be metal) - watch a British search versus a search in Europe and honestly see which you think is most effective.

Yes a body search should be thorough - but admittedly being 'touched up' isn't appropriate. As others have mentioned, you should have requested to speak to a Supervisor at the time i.e. if you think you were 'sexually' harrassed'. Don't however complain for the search being thorough as there is unlikely to be an apology for this!

hasta,

I agree with you totally. I don't mind being searched in front of pax. I do mind being patronised and treated like s@@t at any time, let alone infront of passengers.