737 Max $25 billion hit to Boeing "Biggest corporate blunder ever"
 

Apparently all because somebody thought it would be a good idea to outsource programming and minimise the matter in ops manuals?

Surely didn't cut costs.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/17/b...ost/index.html

Please do tell us who this "somebody" was.

Mr. Bean-Counter

Considering the loss of life and the misery caused to thousands, I'd say they got off light. A long dose of prison life for those responsible would have been a better (though unlikely) outcome.

The bad thing is that they wasted the budget that would have been needed for some successor.

macdo

i agree with you. as it turns out only 1 person lost their job over this fiasco.

Less Hair

Nah... Would have gone into stock repurchase and optiosn. Why think long term when one can get paid handsomely short term ?!

Green light for RTS.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...mentID/1038501

Any loss of life is regrettable, but to call it the "biggest corporate blunder ever" is a tad much. What about Bhopal where nearly 4,000 lost their lives. Or even 'The Titanic'. I always think it's quite ironic that they have Titanic themes bars and make it out that it's something to be celebrated!.

Chas2019

You don't have a clue of what your talking about.

BP: So, $25 billion eh? Y'all want me to carry on holding this beer Mr Boeing?

"Apparently all because somebody thought it would be a good idea to outsource programming and minimise the matter in ops manuals?"

Much worse than simply outsourcing. Organizational culture issue.

Clowns and monkeys played a role. Sad.

"Surely didn't cut costs."

Sound lesson to bean counters as PIC and engineers merely PF's.

Spooky 2

Can you give us a hint? Were there some more heads rolling? Scapegoats or those who deserved it?

25 Bliion $ biggest corporate blunder ever? Ask Volkswagen! Their "Dieselgate" has cost them close to 35 Billion $ so far and it's far from over...

@ Less Hair

"The bad thing is that they wasted the budget that would have been needed for some successor."

And the chinese virus completes the R&D outlook

hoistop

I don;t feel that I should respond to this request for information, and I do not have all the ugly the details, but I can asure you people were quietly shown the door within the last six months, if not before. This of course is not to mention the thousands of employees that have lost their jobs from the combination of the MAX debacle, and Covid 19.

I’m surprised it took this long to be honest.

It’s a 1960’s, 30 tonne first generation jet that has been patched and superglued for 60 years.

The NG has fundamental issues too. A woeful overhead panel, thrust-pitch couple problems, under engine clearance issues, an elevator which is vastly undersized, tail strike susceptibility because they refused to lengthen the gear, a trim wheel that spins like it’s on crack but still takes inordinate amounts of time to move from stop to stop, the STS system... it goes on and on.

They just got lucky with the NG that the problems weren’t exposed earlier.

I fly the NG, and it has a certain level of charm, but if you’ve come from well designed aircraft previously, you can see it should have been retired to the scrap heap 30 years ago.

Boeing have learnt that cheapest option is never the cheapest option.

During the 787 introduction debacle, Joe Sutter (the original 747 designer) asked what the hell was going on at Boeing.
He wondered how a bunch of computer wizards could have made such a stuff-up and taken so long to rectify expensive errors, when decades before, his team introduced a revolutionary aircraft in record time, using slide rules!

There were inevitable issues for such a groundbreaking aircraft but they worked the problem and sorted it.

The 787 wasn’t that revolutionary but was a mess and you’d think the powers that be would’ve then learnt from their errors. However this warmed-over 1960’s rebranded Max aircraft is even less revolutionary and even more of a catastrophe!

Much like the lack of leadership/accountability being demonstrated by the outgoing US President, the heads of Boeing need to take charge like proper leaders should. They should stop passing the buck and take ownership to make sure this avoidable disaster never, ever happens again.

Poor old Joe would be rolling in his grave.

Is it really?

Negan


Surely your not serious? If that were the case we would have airliners flying around looking like billboards. Grow up and get a grip on reality.

Spooky 2

Were these people "quietly shown the door" connected to flight technical,3-800 building or other departments?
Thanks.

You can't buy publicity like this special feature on BBC news. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/jDO...boeing-737-max

+1 :ok:, would you let your loved ones fly in one?

With the FAA and everyother similar agency from Europe checking up on safety its probably safe now. What I am concerned is Boeing tried to conceal the deficiencies of the MCAS system will it happen again? Did the right people get shown the door?

good point but no one died if the engine stopped working.

True, but the problem was about what happened when the engine was running.

Dieselgate (falsifying emissions levels) arguably contributed to the deaths of many more people than the Max killed.

I've just been listening to an old interview with D P Davies (ex UK CAA flight test) about the 727 certification.
Apparently Boeing didn't come clean with the FAA and "together" they certified the plane with unacceptable stall characteristics.
There was one fatal accident. Boeing only fitted a stick pusher later at the insistence of the CAA, for Dan Air.
What's new?

Chas2019

Of course it will. That's the corporate world today. Hide any deficiences to get the product to the market as soon as possible to make money. It's not just aircraft, it's everything.

568

As far as I know, Flight Technical ss/was in the 2501 building. No further comments.

Don't I recall the '74 taking Boeing to the brink?

Indeed you are correct.
Wing root had to be re-designed because of wing loading.

Spooky
Thanks for the response but my question was to see if that if any people who left were in the 25-01 and 3-800 buildings.
Thanks anyway.

In a heartbeat.
But there are plenty of airlines I wouldn’t let them fly with.
The pile-on on the Max has been loopy.

In reply to Slippery Pete,

The fact that Boeing should have gone with a new from the ground up is indisputable. You can design out fundamental challenges through engineering (Porsche 911) but Boeing didn't use Porsche metrics, they went for the chinese model.

The aircraft design isn’t the only thing the company should have started new from the ground up. It needs to become an excellent engineering organization again. Let the MBA’s and COA’s sell apples.

The most expensive corporate blunder was Deepwater Horizon and BP, which came in at a cost of around 65BN. But BP is a company which sported a 278BN turnover in 2019, vs. 76BN for Boeing in the same year. So as a percentage, Boeing are far harder hit with cost of 25-30BN.

Boeing spent around 3BN in 2019 on R&D. In the same year, Boeing spent 20BN on stock buybacks ...

Gotta have your priorities....

Dieselgate killed people ? Get a grip on reality, as someone else wrote. An arbitrary limit on emission for a single vehicle will do no good as long as the amount of emitters is not limited. Would VW have not manipulated the cars but just have sold more of them, everything would have been "fine" and the level of emission would have been the same. And selling of "our" old cars to the 2nd and third world certainly does nothing to better the air....The potential hazard is there, sure, but neither lung diseases did get more prevalent nor did the emission readouts drop when most cars did where not driven during the lock down.(as quite few doctors, specialized lung researchers etc explained)

For some reason if you tell the truth you'll be hanged!

Ref: The previous 'Oldchina' message: "I've just been listening to an old interview with D P Davies (ex UK CAA flight test) about the 727 certification.
Apparently Boeing didn't come clean with the FAA and "together" they certified the plane with unacceptable stall characteristics.
There was one fatal accident. Boeing only fitted a stick pusher later at the insistence of the CAA, for Dan Air.
What's new?"

If my memory serves me correctly it was also once a UK CAA Additional Requirement to have Stick Pushers fitted to early B737s (such as 737-200) prior to those aircraft being allowed to be put on the UK Register.