777X set for January 23rd first flight
 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-fli...184505744.html

First flight of Boeing's 777X set for Thursday: sources

Luc OLINGA
January 21, 2020, 1:45 PM ESTNew York (AFP) - Following months of delay on a plane under development, Boeing plans the first flight for its new long-range 777X on Thursday, two people with knowledge of the matter said Tuesday.

The progress on the 777X comes as Boeing's broader prospects remain clouded by the crisis surrounding the 737 MAX, which has been grounded since March following two deadly crashes.

The date for the first flight, a key step before Boeing seeks federal certification on the new wide-body plane, could still slip depending on weather, the sources said.

The aerospace giant is also seeking to raise at least $10 billion from leading banks due to increased costs connected to the MAX situation, banking sources told AFP.

The 777X flight had initially been planned for summer 2019 but was shifted back due to a number of issues, including with a new engine built by General Electric.

The flight is scheduled to take place in Seattle, the sources said.

A spokesman for the US Federal Aviation Administration said the 777X flight was expected soon "but the timing is entirely up to Boeing."

There have been 340 orders for the 777X, mostly from giants such as Emirates, Lufthansa, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines and Qatar Airways. The plane is a rival option to the Airbus A350.

If all goes well with the first flight, Boeing will then submit documents to the FAA as part of the formal certification process, which includes a test flight.

Boeing is now pointing to early 2021 for first commercial deliveries of the plane, later than the mid-2020 timeframe previously targeted.

Development of the long-range aircraft, which can take between 384 and 426 passengers, hit a snag in September when the fuselage of the plane split during a stress test.

I'm guessing the first flight will hinge on the weather. :O

I am guessing the "announcement" of the first flight coincided with the Mid 2020 announcement.

How long will the "weather" wait be?

At the risk of feeding a consistent 'Boeing Basher' - it could be significant. Weather in the Seattle area in January isn't particularly conducive to the first flight requirements. Among other things, the takeoff will need to be to the north (there are highly populated areas directly south of Paine Field), at a time when the normal wind pattern is from the south (10 knot tailwind limit), and visibility needs to be good enough for visual tracking by chase planes when rain is forecast for at least the next week. Heck, weather very nearly delayed the original 777 first flight in 1994, and that was in June...
Of course that will do little to dissuade the Boeing critics who will happily proclaim the delays have nothing to do with the actual weather...

Do test programs move elsewhere after the first few flights? I can well understand the January wx in Seattle isn’t very conducive to VFR flight.

First flight has to be out of Paine Field (Everett), since that's where the aircraft is. Normal procedure is for the first flight to land at Boeing Field (just south of Seattle), with the flight test program based out of Boeing Field.
No first hand knowledge of the 777X program, but SOP is to do some very basic safety of flight testing (with minimum crew on-board) for the first few flights, after which the FAA will grant the basic Experimental Ticket - after which the overly restrictive 'first flight' requirements are relaxed and the 'normal' flight test program can proceed.

Now I wonder how long it will take for the 777X to be certified? FAA will have to stand firm on this aircraft.

How about moving flight testing down to Edwards, Palmdale or Victorville to make their life easier and get more flight hours due to more stable weather?

Flight testing obviously happens all over the place in varying climates. But the FIRST flight has to be from the factory where it was made - unless you propose shipping a complete 777X overland somehow.

On the wing tips more likely :ok:

Isn't most of the flight testing done out of Moses Lake?

Well I'm glad somebody saw what I did ...

Experimental Flight Testing is usually based out of Boeing Field - that's where all the offices, crew, equipment, etc. are located, although there are exceptions.
That being said, much of the actual flight testing occurs at and around Moses Lake. Very common to takeoff out of Boeing Field and head for Moses Lake to do the actual flight testing - not only a relatively unused airport, the airspace is far less crowded than it is around the Puget Sound area (the other common area was to head over the Pacific west of Washington/Oregon to get large, open blocks of airspace - useful for things like drag and fuel burn testing, where you need to fly straight, level, and hands-off for minutes at a time).
When we were flight testing the 747-8, it was right in the middle of the 787 flight test program. Boeing Field wasn't readily able to support both flight test programs at the same time, so they relocated the 747-8 flight testing to Victorville for a while. It worked, but it was very expensive to keep the over a hundred person crew remote for an extended period.

But not as expensive as delayed certification.
Someone crunched the numbers.

No argument - just pointing out that it's not cheap to base flight testing away from Seattle.
We took a flight test 747-8F to Iqaluit (upper Northeast part of Canada) for a couple days to do very cold weather engine start testing (we needed -30C or below). In order to base a flight test aircraft there for just a day or two took a team of about 50 people.

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TAXI trislsctoday . Tomorrow big day

Why would you consider facts as bashing?

The 737MAX is where right now?

Boeing has been proven to have lied, deflected, and obfuscated on virtually every aspect on every aircraft. It is all there in the emails and messages, albeit from lower lever employees.

The Senate has been forced to request ALL of the emails on the 737MAX

WHEN the request for the same documentation is required on the 777MAX , it will be the same scenario.

The 77MAX was short fused in response to the A350, just like the 737MAX was a shortfuse response to the 320neo..,.,

I rest my case...

Looks like you are right as usual DaveReidUK. ;)

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f960bdea22.jpg

Webcast...

Going ahead today...

Live Stream here:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777...964=1#/webcast

The winds are no where near acceptable today, I expect they will scrub before they fly.

IG

Wingtips just unfolding as it lines up ...

How long do they need!!!!

About 6,000 feet, I reckon. :O

Yeah alright

LOL

You better get comfortable, although I can see a few glimpses of blue sky, the rain isn't supposed to lift for at least an hour.

I'm going to be at a sports field near the airport between about noon and 1pm (local time), maybe I'll get lucky :ok:

And you can see how windy it is by the way the static cone on the tail is blowing around.

Yea, current weather says 17 knots out of the South (so tail wind for takeoff). Looks like it's supposed to drop off later in the afternoon, but not for a couple hours...

Hardly static!

Why can't they depart off 16 ?

Bored now.
Don't think they're going to do it without really good Metar - can't/ won't risk an RTO/ wing flapping scenario.

Stand down.

Having said that it does look like the weather is brightening up and the sun has come out...

Watching...and it DOES look like a really lovely aircraft...I'd like to fly that.

Scrubbed for today due to wind.

IG

Good move.

Try again tomorrow...

(Can't help thinking old John Cashman would have taken her off...Whatever...)

Yep, plan is for ~10am (local time) on Saturday. Weather forecast is more promising - occasional showers and winds out of the south at ~8 knots.

I was there for the original 777 first flight in 1994. The tail wind was fluctuating around the 10 knot limit the whole time - there was some speculation at the time that Cashman was rather selective about which wind reading he was going to use to allow the takeoff. :rolleyes:
Today was between 15-20 knots most of the time, so I suspect even Mr. Cashman would have been hard pressed to come up with with a reading that would have made it permissible...

Light rain and 1 MPH winds at present.
Could be on...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e0bdb68cc.jpeg

if I may quote Mr. Cashman:This was during his retirement (according to the source seattlepi): After 40 years at Boeing, chief test pilot John Cashman is retiring
Is interesting about what I think we all agree here. Unlike other pieces of hardware and software nowadays, where the design phase 'catches all they can get' and after release the product, so the market starts using it and report back the 'glitches' or 'faults' so fixes are applied later on. There's a small-huge difference on an airplane:
The flight test engineers and test pilots are trained to try, find and correct those glitches and errors. But the common day-by-day pilot may not fall into that category, and when faced with the unknown may react differently.
At that point, the pilots cannot just 'shut down and restart' or stop in the middle of the air to report the glitch to the manufacturer.
As the machines we fly become more sophisticated, there is more things that lies deep buried on the software coding and hardware that is supposed to 'kick-in' at the right time, to save the day. In the past, that hardware was the pilot, and the software was their ability, experience, feeling, etc., right now, well, it seems that the direction is other. Machines that 'automatically' correct, the errors or situations. Until it gets to the point of being 'out-of-the-script', when something happens that is outside that predefined set of 'triggers' and we have to rely again on the pilots.
Is an interesting paradox to think about, when everything is pointing to the point of 'single pilot' crew (save money, maximize profit), completely automated flight (idem)... hell, when machines are operating, who will be responsible if something goes wrong?. Be aware Boeing / Airbus... you will... there will be no more 'pilot error' mentioned on the investigations... will you take the bet?

Pushed back...

live webcast: Boeing: Boeing 777X First Flight: Flight Tracker, Webcast & Video

The static cone is almost asleep..looking good.

IG