Check PM low flyer

Well for observers of the recent collapses in the UK (Monarch and Thomas Cook) we know that those BEIS and DfT “levers” aren’t connected to anything. Pulling on them is unlikely to yield much positive help. Another business run to ground by grandiose plans and unaffordable finance. Yet again there will be much groaning and gnashing of teeth but no one will be held accountable and the staff and suppliers will bear the brunt of the suffering.........And round and round we go!

No doubt a very difficult time for both the ticket holders and those within Flybe, hopefully the airline will find some way to continue on. I've seen it pointed out on here in the past that the main players in the European airline market will be IAG, AF/KLM, Lufthansa Group, Easyjet and Ryanair. There will be a few others around serving perhaps some of the niche/local markets but the aforementioned five will pretty much dominate. As the Indy mentioned, as soon as regional airlines identify the demand, the larger carriers arrive with their stronger economies of scale and price out the competition.

It depends heavily on which journey a passenger wishes to take. Most journeys to/from London, or to/from any locations along one of the main lines out of London, tend to be fairly fast, for example Newcastle-London can be as done is as little as 2hr40mins. Anything that's from one regional city to another (e.g. Derby-Southampton, or Bristol-Newcastle) tends to be much slower, that's where regional airlines would appear to have a niche. The railway fares system is very cheap if you book 12 weeks in advance, flying is most likely better if you need something at shorter notice.

As for comfort, Class 220/221/222 and Class 390 trains, which together form quite a considerable portion of the express fleet, were designed to operate in a tilting mode to increase speed to curved sections of track. The British loading gauge, which is one of the most restrictive in the world, required that due to the tilt feature, the bodyshells be narrower than usual. Therefore, the interior of these trains is very cramped. Anything that's derived from Mark 3 coaching stock, e.g. the HST, tends to be far better especially with the original IC70 seating which has lots of tables.

If HS2 is done properly, I think flying between London and Scotland will be massively reduced in the way that Eurostar has taken 80% of the combined Air/Rail market between London and Paris.

Having driven to BHX, why didn't you get the train, every two hours, takes 4, interrupted work time? Advance tickets are often quite cheap. And if the plane was cheaper, then no wonder Flybe are in trouble.

I think pricing is key. Rail is now my preferred method when going to Paris or other places in France on the TGV network but a lot of that is because Eurostar and SNCF fares can be very affordable, especially when booked well in advance. Add to that the quicker checking in/security times, the generous (and free) luggage allowance and going directly to the city centre makes things very pleasant. I just can't see HS2 fares being cheap. I think the operators will be targeting the business sector who will be prepared to pay through the nose to shave some time off their journey.

Sky news leaks again. These leaks are carefully planned to have a calculated outcome. Look what happened to the Flybe share price with the Sky News leaks last year. Wake Mr Kleinman, you have well and truly been used again! I'm surprised SFO.govt.uk haven't been in touch.

Even with high load factors competition can be a factor. If there's a lot of competition the price competition can be fierce. That reduces revenue/yields to the point that the term 'full loads' is meaningless.

Incredible, by the dictionary definition of the word.

3 months prior notice . . . how many people can make use of that ridiculous limitation ? . . .

While I don't doubt either the fare or timescale you quote, that is an unusable restriction for most people.

Rail travel, for me, is so far from being a viable option in any respect, cost, timscales, inconvenience, that I would be better driving . . . which is cheaper, no slower and much more convenient . . . what a ridiculous observation, but true none the less.

You observation of how wonderful rail is near London does not, strangely, equate to it being wonderful anywhere else.

Tens of thousands of airline passengers do!

Flybe return from EDI to BHX was £75 last October, brought well in advance. Most of that (£55 ISTR) was taxes.

Can it REALLY cost £20 per seat for this service? The wages of the flight crew would eat that up sharpish no?

Book today and you can travel one way Birmingham to Edinburgh direct next Tuesday for £40. About 4 hours between city centres. 1/3 off if you hold a railcard. No security or check in delays. Some trains are a lot more expensive though thanks to the vagaries of the fare system.

In fact I see you can book the 12.15 tomorrow for the same £40 price.

In fact I see you can book the 12.15 tomorrow for the same £40 price.

I would suggest that is because 12.15 is off peak. And it's off peak because there is much less demand for business travel at that time. You will find that the same applies to air fares.

The way the rail fare system works is that with longer journeys, a certain number of tickets for each journey are sold as "advance" tickets, these are up to 75% off the walk up on the day price but are restricted to a specific train at a certain time. They go on sale 12 weeks before the date of travel, once the 75% off advances are sold, the next slightly more expensive advances become available until all of them are sold out and so-on until no advances at all are left. On some services, it's possible to purchase a relatively cheap advance the day before travel. It is possible to switch one advance for another for a small fee and any difference in price between the two. It's also possible to split-ticket journeys so long as the train stops at all of the stations where the journey is split. Of course, airlines generally have a bit more flexibility in how they price and sell tickets because they are not subject to franchising.

The main advantage the railway has business-wise over regional airlines is that most train operators will always be there. Look at the East Coast Main Line for example. It was originally privatised as GNER, then once they weren't financially viable any more it became National Express. NE subsequently handed it back to the government who a few years later re-privatised it as Virgin East Coast. It's now been re-nationalised again. Most of the staff are TUPE'd over from one organisation to the next. In the UK, the only train companies that can go properly bust are freight operators and the open access passenger operators which are not subject to franchising and whom make use of spare track capacity.

Unless there is a nationalised regional airline, or one that largely operates PSO routes underpinned by government cash, then I think the regional airline industry will have a tough battle against rail. Things will only get more difficult as additional rail infrastructure is developed.

little wonder they’re in the financial mire with prices like that.

That’s the rail fare:}

£40 is the rail fare, not the Flybe fare for tomorrow. The BEE return fare is in excess of £300 ;)

Reportedly seeking delays to multi-million pound APD payments...

https://news.sky.com/story/flybe-beg...-bill-11908014

Just landed in EDI (diff airline) and the ground crew said that the dash 8's are getting put on a remote stand tonight and they've cancelled their catering orders/toilet service bookings. Doesn't sound good :(