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Airport security
Puzzle me this.. ..
When will security staff at UK airports show a human side? 20 plus years I've been operating out of UK airports and it hasn't improved one iota, despite the numerous CHIRP reports, media coverage etc. This morning I had to take a tissue (unused) out of my pocket before being body scanned, and then hold it during the subsequent "pat" down after the aforementioned scan. And I had to ask, why use a body scanner if you're going to do a full "pat" down anyway? Apparently it shows them where to search, which always seems to be the nether regions! We are not would be terrorists until proven otherwise, please show a little humanity and common sense |
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While there are exceptions, I have to say that most of the individual security agents I deal with are polite and friendly if you are polite and friendly with them. The problem with UK airport security lies higher up the chain of command than the individual gate agent.
Under our devolved system airport security managers can add additional local rules above that required by the regulator, so that at some airports a non locally based member of staff cannot access the ramp without local pass holding escort, at others they can; at some airports all belts must be removed whether or not they trigger the scanner, at others you are fine, and the scanners themselves seem set to different sensitivities - my metal bracelet watch triggers some but not others. The devolved system is of course a convenient cop out by the regulator, allowing them to saddle the blame for any problem onto the airports manager - "we gave you the power to put additional local rules in place so its your fault", and naturally the local security manager does just that to cover their ass, leading to the inconsistent system we suffer. The purpose of a regulator is to provide consistent proportionate regulation, not to farm out regulation to allow it to shirk its responsibilities. Our employers the airlines also appear remiss in supinely accepting this: I recently changed base; despite my pass at my previous airport have significant validity left we had to got through the whole rigmarole or CRC and security and CRC checks to get a new on issued - inconvenient for me and a additional cost for my airline at a time we have seen a number of airline in financial trouble. Why each airport has to start the whole process from scratch when somebody already holds a valid uk airport security pass I find inexplicable. There are also safety implications: On the continent a number of airports use a sensible system of coded numeric keypads to allow access from the airbridge to the ramp and vice versa. In the Uk I typically cannot get that access to deal with say fuelers, or issues in the hold etc, unless I am at my home airport for which I hold a pass. More importantly if when on the ramp I need quick access to my aircraft - of which I am the captain, and for which I am responsible - I may not be able to quickly get it. Finally I note our union BALPA seems almost deafening in it silence, its latest missives seem to be representing the edicts of the security authorities to the pilots, rather than the concerns and needs of the pilots to the authorities. Why for example when on duty but positioning as a passenger, do I suddenly become a more dangerous person, denied access to my crewroom to get the flight documentation that I will use later to conduct a flight, until the end of the positioning flight when my status magically changes back to that of operating crew, and I am allowed into the places I need to go to do my job? |
I have been harassed by airport security for the last 25 years. I don't remember one trip without some extra hassle.
I once asked a friend in the business for a possible reason and the only one he could come up with was that I might "look like a soldier". I am not and have not really been. About 90% of males of my age have gone through national service but that does not actually make one "a soldier" for the rest of his life. I try to say as little as possible and answer questions but no help there. And there are the idiocies like what is a computer, my small tablet apparently is but my large phone is not. They have the same capabilities and my phone actually has a larger battery. They are there for the image not for actual security. |
Airport security is a funny subject. As aircrew, we have to go through security every single day we go to work. I have refined it so that nothing I wear sets the detector off (belt, shoes etc). There is nothing in my bag that will cause a problem, and I put ALL my electronic devices into the tray And my liquids - in the allowed sized containers and in the correct sized bag. It is very simple really.
I am always polite and respectful to the staff. I smile and make polite eye contact. I say good morning/evening, do what they ask and say thank you when they pass me. Sometimes I get a random search and pat down. Sometimes they ask me to take my shoes and belt off. Of course, no problem. Can I search your bag sir? Can I sample your liquids bag? Yes of course, whatever you need. It is very simple really. Remember what security is trying to do - prevent an airborne fire, explosion or hijack. YOU know you are not a terrorist, but how do they know? You look like everyone else, so they have to check. Security staff have an awful job. It must be so boring. Hundreds of times during their shift, they have to ask people to take their liquids out, take their belts off, take everything out of their pockets etc, Add to that if passengers and aircrew get cross or impatient, and no wonder security staff are sometimes tight lipped or strict with people. My advice is to pack remembering that you will need to remove all your liquids and electronic devices. Give yourself plenty of time to get through security - don’t leave it until the last minute, there might be big queues. Do not get angry even if you think you did what they asked. Be polite and thank the staff. They don’t make the rules, and it is a nuisance for everybody, but they are trying to keep you safe. :ok: PS I am not having a go at you, Aihkio, my post is general advice to everyone. |
I get the idea of a random search but what are the chances of searches being random on every bloody flight for 25 years 2-3 times a year?
Lately I have loaded just about everything on wifey and just keep the phone, being without one would apparently be suspicious. |
Ahkio ; I appreciate your experiences. As it happens, I look just like an Arab Terrorist. I love lying around in the sun and go very dark indeed. Although a UK National, I wound up as a Senior Captain with GF & was, largely, assumed to be Arabic wherever I went on Duty.Mostly, no problem. Off duty ; oh boy. Into LAX just after 9-11 , when answering questions I revealed that I was an Airline Pilot, Based in Bahrain (had to educate the inquisitor that Bahrain was in the ARABIAN Gulf and not the Gulf of Texas and that I flew B767 for a living it all got a bit twitchy !
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Black Beard would have got nowhere nowadays. I have an acquiantance who has a beard that practically prevents all air travel. Lately he has had some thoughts about some reshaping. As a std Finn he even does not tan easily.
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I saw a wonderful example of this at Luxor last year. Cleaner was carrying five loose toilet rolls thro to toilets and armed guard made him put them thro the scanner. It was confusing and sort of reassuring at the same time.
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At Stansted some years ago I saw Special Branch having to put their guns through the scanner??
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Originally Posted by dixi188
(Post 10608977)
At Stansted some years ago I saw Special Branch having to put their guns through the scanner??
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This is a doco made in 2010. “Please remove your shoes” it backgrounds the TSA. |
As a teen I remember carrying a 222rem hunting rifle into the aircraft on a normal domestic flight. Bolt was in the checked baggage but nobody actually wanted to see it. I think ammo was there too.
In the days long gone by, sigh ... |
The only problem I have had was at JFK some years ago.
My wife, a pensioner, cannot walk without shoes due to fused ankle bones. I called the supervisor and he was deaf to my reasoning.My wife just about managed with a lot of pain and anguish to get through the arch. I asked him why folks in trainers were not going through the scan. No response. I assume it is about some women's shoes having a steel shank in them . Perhaps the supervisor was never told about this. |
I've been given the full monty in Geneva. Shoes, belt, watch, shirt (popper studs), phone, laptop etc etc.
Then when you finally arrived in the departures lounge, they were perfectly happy to sell Swiss Army knives..... |
Unfortunately it's what one gets when one employs (mostly, in my experience) poorly educated and oft inadequate people on minimum wage and then give them power. A recipe for disater.
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Arrived as active skipper after a 14 hour flight in Melbourne and have been separated from the rest of the crew, then seriously patted down in front of all passengers. Being an old, unattractive skipper, therefore not for pleasure, but for show.
Obviously they found zilch. Then they questioned me. First question was: "What is the purpose of your visit to Australia?" No further comment. |
I never understood the restrictions on liquids and I'm convinced it's to ensure you continue to buy overpriced soft drinks/water in the departures lounge; along with having to trick unsuspecting folks into paying up to £2 for a ziplock bag.
Hypothetically if an odious individual wanted a large quantity of suspect liquid post security they'd simply have 20 folks on cheap tickets go through security with 100ml and mix it together in the toilets in an empty container? It's absolute theater. |
Luton airport a few years ago. I arrive at security. My bag goes through the scanner. My pass is swiped. All OK. Security chap: Are you here to work? Me (smiling): That’s why I’m wearing uniform. SC: You must answer yes or no. Me (still smiling): Is this a new procedure? SC: You must answer yes or no. Are you here to work? Me (teeth gritted): Yes. |
Originally Posted by Discorde
(Post 10609057)
Security chap: Are you here to work? Me (smiling): That’s why I’m wearing uniform. SC: You must answer yes or no. Me (still smiling): Is this a new procedure? SC: You must answer yes or no. Are you here to work? Me (teeth gritted): Yes. Crew: "Sir, are you over fourteen years old?" Me: "Seriously?" with a raised eyebrow. Crew in raised voice so that half the cabin could hear: "Sir, I need you to answer the question or I will have to reseat you. Are you over fourteen years old?" Me: "Yes, I am in fact almost forty years old." Crew, still in raised voice: "You must answer yes or no. Are you over fourteen years old?" |
I still have great delight in handing back the small plastic-bag to the security agent after my carry-on etc has been through the scanner. They look completely confused, as if their brains are unable to work through a plan of action which is not a normal situation for them.
Once my liquids are in the bag, and in the tray, and going through the scanner, I walk through to the other side; there, I start to re-pack my carry-on bag. I remove my bottle of water from 'their plastic bag' and put the bottle into my carry-on. I hand the plastic bag back to the agent and tell them that I won't be needing it any more and would they like it back? They usually tell me that I need the plastic bag for my my liquids, so I tell them it's not needed any more as my liquids are now in my carry-on bag, I don't want to litter their area and it's better for the environment. More confusion (for them). Next, they usually explain that it's for 'security reasons', so I ask them where the next security check is between me and the aircraft door, and whether they will have similar plastic bags there? I've probably got various flags against my name in some database somewhere saying 'stroppy passenger'! |
A while back at PVG I got such a thorough patdown from a lovely young female in uniform that I was wondering if I should leave a tip.
Originally Posted by dixi188
(Post 10608977)
At Stansted some years ago I saw Special Branch having to put their guns through the scanner??
A friend had to remove his uniform parts and repeatedly go through the metal detector. When told to remove his belt he was a little miffed and he tossed it on the x-ray machine. It bounced off and hit a TSA agent who was sitting beside reading a graphic novel (aka a comic book). A report was filed and he operated his trip. Months later he got a call that he had been charged with felony assault of a federal officer. An ALPA lawyer got things negotiated down to a fine and a sealed administrative plea. |
I heard about a policeman going through security at Heathrow. He had to put his belt, lunch, handcuffs, taser, CS spray and gun through the X Ray machine. They gave him back his belt, handcuffs, taser, Cs spray and gun but confiscated the yoghurt from his lunch box...... |
So the rigidity of their procedure has countered most of the assumed security and also they are constantly irritating people for no useful purpose.
I wonder if glyserol containing hand lotions still sets off the alarm on explosive detectors, used to. |
Originally Posted by Doctor Cruces
(Post 10609016)
Unfortunately it's what one gets when one emplyes poorly educated and oft inadequate people on minimum wage and then give them power. A recipe for disater.
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Anodyne
The problem with UK airport security lies higher up the chain of command than the individual gate agent. The purpose of a regulator is to provide consistent proportionate regulation, not to farm out regulation to allow it to shirk its responsibilities. ... and the scanners themselves seem set to different sensitivities - my metal bracelet watch triggers some but not others. Why for example when on duty but positioning as a passenger, do I suddenly become a more dangerous person, denied access to my crewroom to get the flight documentation that I will use later to conduct a flight, until the end of the positioning flight when my status magically changes back to that of operating crew, and I am allowed into the places I need to go to do my job? Someone had blundered. Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die. Alfred, Lord Tennyson Not much has changed since 1854 ... |
At NRT a colleague somehow left a pair of scissors in his pilot bag. They were lifted at security and delivered to him at the plane.
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Hi everyone, I’ve been a long term lurker on this site but never really posted, seeing as I’m not a pilot in any professional capacity but I do have a huge interest in aviation. I got as far as going solo for my PPL but had to stop due to monetary requirements unfortunately. This topic has tweaked my ears though seeing as I work as a security officer at BHX, maybe I can give a little insight into some of the issues. As some of you have said, the attitude of some of my colleagues towards passengers and crew does make me cringe. There’s just no need for it. I will always be polite and respectful to every person I meet, on what ever position I am working on at that time. Having said that, the way I am spoken to by some passengers and crew makes my blood boil. Regarding the first post about the body scanner, the reason I ask the individual to remove any items out of their pockets including tissues is because it is an external scanner. Once you are scanned, it will show different orange zones on a generic stick figure that we need hand search. If I can get everything out of your pockets, there’s a decent chance the scanner will display an ‘ok’ message and you won’t need any hand search. Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted. Walking through the metal detector, it will detect metal but it will also alarm at random intervals and ratios. The individual that ‘randoms’ will have a body scan and their shoes swabbed. As far as I’m concerned, asking someone to remove some tissue isn’t having a lack of humanity, it’s trying to help you get through with the minimal of fuss. Remember, I don’t want my hands round your sweaty crotch any more than you do! Last week I had the pleasure of being under the eye of a CAA Inspector. All rules and procedures we follow come from the EASA with the CAA being the nominated regulatory authority. There is no grey areas when it comes to the CAA, liquid bags must seal, liquids, no matter how small must be out of the cabin bags, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, when someone asks for some understanding or leaway with regards to an oversize liquid or whatever, what they are expecting me to do is basically jeopardise my position, which I will not do. I won’t be pillock about it and I have no power to take anything off you, I will ask you to surrender it of check it in but that is as far as my ‘power’ goes. What I do have under my sleeve though is, if you don’t want to surrender the prohibited item, your travel goes no further. Again I won’t be an arse about it but I won’t tolerate any abuse from any passenger or crew and until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this. Now, being regarded as uneducated is just plain insulting. I’m far from uneducated and take great pride in what I do. People seem to forget that my main aim, as I have said to many passengers, is to prevent their family turning on the TV one day and seeing their aeroplane spread across a field, be it being caused my bomb or whatever. That training and compliance is constantly ongoing and monitored. Yes we may be the last line of defence and I imagine intelligence plays a bigger part in stopping threats, but nevertheless, we are needed and I make sure I am always professional in whatever I am doing. Anyway, I hope maybe that helps as to why some things are done. |
Recently at a U.K. airport we were flying through with our young child. His food and liquids were all in the correct bags and were all less than 100ml. They insisted in taking every single item out, x raying and residue checks on each.. touching them and putting them in dirty trays in the process (bear in mind he will be holding packets later, yum). When we pointed out they were all compliant and under 100ml we were made to feel like disruptive passengers. One item (still under 100ml) “failed” so she unfortunately had to go and find her supervisor to see if it as allowed through or not... disappearing for 10 minutes. We are crew and know how the game works. Some workers are just up for a fight. Power trip? |
Originally Posted by Will_161
(Post 10609231)
until these new X-ray machines arrive, it’s going to be like this. |
He might mean the Cranfield Halo, how reliable it is in practise remains to be seen.
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Originally Posted by Flightlevel001
(Post 10609259)
Tell us about these new x-ray machines, Will_161... Sounds like it could mean an end to this whole performance, which will be a huge relief all round I expect.
Apparently the screening time is longer but bag searching is greatly reduced. It’s a nightmare at the moment over here though because every KLM flight we get through, most of the passengers are getting their bag searched because they are leaving everything in. |
These scanners have been in use in Terminal4 at Changi Airport since it opened.
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I have always found that the level of attention by security is most often driven by the Altitude / attitude of those being inspected. About the same level as customs and immigration. In 50 years +, i have never being subject to secondary check by either.
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They must be psychic then, not yet demented enough to tell them their rules and definitions are at least partly just plain wrong.
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Unfortunately the scanner is susceptible to body heat and sweat, resulting in the crotch area being highlighted. |
Even in Lisbon airport they have those 3D-scanners now. Why not in the rest of Europe? Easy: cost-saving and the security-industry is a multi-billion Euro/Dollar/Pound business that will not allow those rules to be changed. It's embarrassing that we still need to take out our liquids and that there limitations of liquids at all, it's almost 2020, the technology to identify harmful substances does exist!
Will_161 well, if you really believe that you are the "last line of defence" and that the security procedures that you and all the security-people in airports follow are useful, then they have managed to indoctrinate you very well. Your job is - please don't take it personal - a complete waste of time. The bad guys will get the bad stuff in through others channels, namely catering and other landside based means and if they really wanted to, they would have succeeded. Well, they have, do you remember the Russian Airbus out of Sharm El-Sheik? That was not the act of a passenger. And the same is possible, for example in Heathrow (or any other airport): it is not feasible to search catering-trucks and in 99% of cases the catering is produced outside the CP or even the perimeter of an airport. To enter, the driver has to show a piece of paper, his licence/pass and probably go through sreening and some dedicated security-officer thoroughly searches the outside of the truck with a high-tech mirror, before having a quick look in the cabin of that vehicle. What about the 50 catering trolleys??? Security is there because of good lobbying by people who run the show and make lots and lots of money with this nonsense-circus. The security procedures that we had in place pre-9/11 were good enough: trust the crews, don't treat them like potential criminals/terrorists, they usually keep their eyes open for strange people. After being treated like a dick by some power-hungry school-aborter, one surely does not give a damn. On top of it there are some laughable screening procedures, especially in the UK! I do fly a business jet (commercial rules). The idiocy that us crew, our passengers and FBOs have to put up with is un-be-f**king-liev-able!! What p*ss*s me off the most is the complete lack of trust that is put into already background-checked people like us. It used to be different and I do not remember any terrorist acts committed or facilitated by crew members. Luckily there are still countries where security staff is using their common sense and make our lives easier, because they know exactly how inefficient and stupid the procedures are that have been put in place. |
EatMyShorts you actually support the idea that Will and others are doing a good job by stating that crims and n'er do wells have to look for other ways to get their contraband airside. If security wasn't present at all access points to airside it would be even easier for the nasties to get their goods airside.
I made the mistake on one ocassion when travelling on a business trip, but going to a charter destination in USA, albeit on a scheduled flight. of wearing a suit. This meant I didn't fit the profile of passenger for the flight at all and was pulled over for security check at 3 points before leaving UK, and also on arrival in USA where we could mix with unscreened domestic arrivals at one point. Next time I shall wear flip flops and a kiss me quick hat! |
As aircrew we are probably more exposed to this than the average punter. Hence why we have more stories than your average punter. Most security screening staff are friendly enough and just doing a job. Most flight crew are friendly enough and know the game. But we all know characters on both sides of the discussion that are complete idiots. From the “I have a crash axe on the flight deck” and “i don’t need a yoghurt to crash a plane” to “I’m in charge here until the inspection is complete”. The security measures have forced those intent of doing harm to an aircraft to search for other avenues. 3 anecdotes that still make me chuckle from when I used to work on the ground. 1) I had a half litre bottle of water confiscated at the security checkpoint as I was driving a vehicle from landslide to airside. They didn’t get the irony of me saying that I had about 40 litres of flammable petrol in the car’s tank and did they want to confiscate that too (it was a night shift and I was grumpy). 2) A security guard coming from landside to airside said “oh I’m sorry I have a can of redbull, you’ll have to confiscate that” chortle chortle as soon as they were airside they took the confiscated can of redbull and opened it up in front of everyone else and started drinking it. I reported that because I was annoyed at their blatant p*sstake 3) a fully armed police officer walking through a scanner setting off everything. Security said “I’m going to have to search you, where am I allowed to search you?” I could give some anecdotes from flight crew colleagues but I won’t because I still have to work with them. |
I do think the security at UK airports is over the top. There's absolutely no room for common sense.
There are many other parts of the world where some airport staff and aircrew can still bring a pot of yoghurt or a bottle of water airside. There's various stories that I've heard over the years such as engineers unable to bring milk or yoghurt though security as liquids, however they're perfectly OK if they're brought through frozen. Another (at LHR I think) was of an engineer trying to take his frozen ready meal though security, it was a hot day so said meal had begun to defrost, he had to open the (sealed) packet and drain off the liquid before being able to take the remaining frozen bit airside. Whilst I'm sure there's some reasoning behind this, (I would guess that explosive liquids don't freeze), Engineers and Crew have plenty of other ways to bring down an aircraft if they so wish, we certainly don't need to resort to exploding yoghurt ! |
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