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Thomas Cook Gone
At 02.05 am on 23rd September 2018 Thomas Cook one of the oldest travel firms went into administration, at the time I was watching one if its final flights descending into Manchester. This is a very sad day.. Besides the thousands of passengers affected., there are 22,000 jobs on the line worldwide.
Before anybody says topic is covered elsewhere TCX for example, its too important for that.. |
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This is very sad news. Yesterday over France we flew past one of their aircraft, ironically it was in a hybrid Monarch/Thomas Cook colour scheme. Good luck to all the staff. |
Will any one airline benefit from filling the void left by TC’s demise? BBC report that 40 aircraft will be chartered to move 150,000 uk citizens back to Brexit land. Would TC aircraft be available for charter to fullfill this role? Mjb |
No, as they will have been impounded by airports due to unpaid debts. |
I wonder if Virgin will grab pilots like they did with Monarch. A friend of mine was back in the air within weeks, and much happier with his lot, so it would appear. |
Damn shame. Who would work in this precarious business these days ? i certainly wouldn’t do it all again. . Best of luck to the staff in finding something else soon . |
So are there any companies that might snap up some of the aircraft and pilots?
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Originally Posted by Claude1
(Post 10576846)
So are there any companies that might snap up some of the aircraft and pilots?
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They are more likely to grab the much more valuable airport slots
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You can be an airline, a travel agency or a hotel. Not all three. McKinseys have been banging on about diversification’s perils since at least 1990 according to my memory. |
Jet2 alongside EasyJet with Ryan would appear benefit from the lack of a competitive airline. I sympathise with all the staff and hope that this employer loss is only a temporary situation for them. Our industry is not immune from company failures, not the first and certainly not the last we will endure. Good luck to all. |
Writing on a Wall a long time ago
My ex-husband is a pilot with them - they used to go to Flight Ops meetings once a year and when the pilots were expressing concerns about easyJet taking more and more market share and moving into holidays/package market the management were just saying they are not a competitor and they are not worried - just had their heads in the sand. This was 10 years ago - failure to recognise the market place and to develop niche options which low cost wouldn't move into.
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The days of package tour operators and travel agents are numbered. It’s a lot cheaper for most people to book their flights and hotels online. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10576885)
The days of package tour operators and travel agents are numbered. It’s a lot cheaper for most people to book their flights and hotels online. |
Originally Posted by Claude1
(Post 10576891)
Except, according to a news report this morning, that by doing so you have less legal protection when things go wrong, than if you booked a complete package.
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10576892)
Book with a credit card and you are protected over £100 by the consumer credit regulations. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10576885)
The days of package tour operators and travel agents are numbered. It’s a lot cheaper for most people to book their flights and hotels online. The hotels were basically a booking agency. Again, maybe don't make much now but can just break even. So why the huge debts. It wasn't going out in current expenditure and income. It was from the huge loans taken out years ago to buy up all those other companies, the MyTravels, the Condors, etc. That had to be paid back, with interest, and it couldn't be. That's where the money is due. And those are the financing deals that have been sold on and on in the finance world. And where the management has all their attention concentrated. |
Originally Posted by back to Boeing
(Post 10576897)
You’ll get a refund but that won’t get you home if you have to buy a last minute ticket from wherever. |
It was the ill fated merger with My Travel MYT back in 2007 that was the first and by far the biggest nail in the coffin. The debt that came with MYT proved to be unsustainable and since then the management have spent far too much time and playing the equivalent of twister with the banks. But no matter how much they twisted the debt was still there. Since the merger TC has paid over one billion in fees and interest payments. That left virtually no cash for the investment required to keep up with the competition in a rapidly changing market. |
Why didn’t the U.K. government help ?
Why didn’t the U.K. government help ? Italian has saved many of its airlines past and present. What’s the cost to the government now in social fees to the now unemployed ? |
Originally Posted by icemanalgeria
(Post 10576939)
Why didn’t the U.K. government help ? Italian has saved many of its airlines past and present. What’s the cost to the government now in social fees to the now unemployed ? |
Originally Posted by MarkDip
(Post 10576931)
It was the ill fated merger with My Travel MYT back in 2007 that was the first and by far the biggest nail in the coffin. The debt that came with MYT proved to be unsustainable and since then the management have spent far too much time and playing the equivalent of twister with the banks. But no matter how much they twisted the debt was still there. Since the merger TC has paid over one billion in fees and interest payments. That left virtually no cash for the investment required to keep up with the competition in a rapidly changing market. |
Thing I don’t get.... British government was to stupid to fork out the last £150 million pounds(with a billion pounds already available from private parties to sort out the huge debt) and now everyone is stranded and with many job losses consequently. But in the meantime Condor is applying for a temporary loan from the German government, and is able to conduct normal business, and will probably be sold in the near future. So no repatriation needed and people can still go to work. Why the h*ll this is not happening in the UK? |
Icemanalgeria. There are EU rules against governments bailing out failing businesses. Unlike our continental friends and partners, we are sticklers for the rules in Blighty.
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Originally Posted by BristolScout
(Post 10576981)
Icemanalgeria. There are EU rules against governments bailing out failing businesses. Unlike our contine
There are perfectly good political and/or economic arguments against such interventions but our politicians have fed the LIE that it is evil Europe that has prevented this and cost decent British jobs. And here we are..... |
Originally Posted by A and C
(Post 10576881)
It’s nothing to do with Brexit but those pushing one political view or another would have you think so. Mind you, even if I had, it wouldn't have been with TC due to their disgraceful corporate handling of the carbon monoxide deaths in Corfu so as you were, nothing to do with Brexit. |
And why should Governments bail out businesses ? Business is business and it is often in a very hard commercial world. I didn't see the Government bail out British Eagle, Court Line, Laker, Air Europe etc, etc. As Professional pilots, we know, or should know the commercial risks of getting too loyal to a brand. TC definitely not the first and others will follow. Pick your employers carefully. Good luck to all at TC.
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TCX's greatest problem was its incompetent management. It wouldn't listen to criticism, was in a permanent state of "group-think", and focused only on its individual reward. I recall being told, many years ago, by a manager now long gone, that we had nothing to fear from easyJet because "it was a totally different business model".
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Jet2 are trying to cash in. Tried to book flights back from Lanzarote for next Jan as we were booked with TCX. Got all the details in and told price was circa £4700 (8 people). Went to the pay now page and they stated price had risen to £7600 due to demand. I can see many people will panic and just pay it. Fortunately TUI offered much fairer price. Condolences to all passengers and staff. Sad day.
As for Government bail outs - where would you stop? Would you expect them to bail out every business that fails? What about Jamie's food business? Or HofF or the numerous other businesses that are struggling and are on the brink? |
Due to the UK still being a member of the EU, the stranded passengers will be able to get home under the EU passenger rights rules.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...r/index_en.htm |
Originally Posted by anotherthing
(Post 10576997)
Jet2 are trying to cash in. Tried to book flights back from Lanzarote for next Jan as we were booked with TCX. Got all the details in and told price was circa £4700 (8 people). Went to the pay now page and they stated price had risen to £7600 due to demand. I can see many people will panic and just pay it. Fortunately TUI offered much fairer price. Condolences to all passengers and staff. Sad day.
As for Government bail outs - where would you stop? Would you expect them to bail out every business that fails? What about Jamie's food business? Or HofF or the numerous other businesses that are struggling and are on the brink? Shortsightedness is something hard to overcome. However if you can avoid paying £600 million pounds for repatriation, minimize tax revenue loss and avoid millions of benefit payouts by lending a £150 million pounds, then that makes more sense then just simply stick to capitalistic principles. Don’t forget, private investors and banks had already a billion pounds in place.... |
Originally Posted by FR9999
(Post 10577007)
Shortsightedness is something hard to overcome. However if you can avoid paying £600 million pounds for repatriation, minimize tax revenue loss and avoid millions of benefit payouts by lending a £150 million pounds, then that makes more sense then just simply stick to capitalistic principles. Don’t forget, private investors and banks had already a billion pounds in place.... |
Originally Posted by FR9999
(Post 10577007)
Shortsightedness is something hard to overcome. However if you can avoid paying £600 million pounds for repatriation, minimize tax revenue loss and avoid millions of benefit payouts by lending a £150 million pounds, then that makes more sense then just simply stick to capitalistic principles. Don’t forget, private investors and banks had already a billion pounds in place.... there is a saying in business ‘the first loss is the best loss’ £600M to repatriate etc versus £150M to bolster. TCX have posted a first half year loss of over £1Bn. So HMG throws in £150M to cover. what happens next time? Throw in more money? Keep throwing in money, good after bad? where does HMG stop? Which businesses should it bail out and which shouldn’t they? The banks are a different proposition. An airline/holiday company, although sad for individuals involved, is not an essential fabric of the economy, especially whenJet2 etc are there to mop up, which they will. TCX is a failed business. It is sad, but it is a fact. Plenty other businesses are managing despite ‘Brexit’ which some people in here are laying the blame at the feet of. HMG is right not to take a financial interest in. As to what other European countries do, that is there business. Europe is not, despite best intentions, a level playing field |
Originally Posted by Claude1
(Post 10576846)
So are there any companies that might snap up some of the aircraft and pilots?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....906d4359d3.png |
I believe I am correct in saying that the administrator can agree to pay off outstanding airport charges, including landing fees, if there is insufficient capacity, in order to free up TC aircraft to be used for repatriation purposes.
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Originally Posted by parabellum
(Post 10577103)
I believe I am correct in saying that the administrator can agree to pay off outstanding airport charges, including landing fees, if there is insufficient capacity, in order to free up TC aircraft to be used for repatriation purposes.
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Originally Posted by parabellum
(Post 10577103)
I believe I am correct in saying that the administrator can agree to pay off outstanding airport charges, including landing fees, if there is insufficient capacity, in order to free up TC aircraft to be used for repatriation purposes.
If the carrier has ceased trading there is nobody with their name on the line to take responsibility. The insurers will have suspended cover on everything. The aircraft are likely to be seized by bailiffs for the first who gets to them who is owed significant sums. You can't work like that. |
It's all very simple really.
Thomas Cook had £1.7 billion of debt owed to the banks. That's over £26 of debt for every man, woman and child in the whole of the UK. A look at its last published accounts for y/e 30/9/18 (a year ago) showed;
What it must have been like 12 months later I can't begin to imagine. Bankruptcy was inevitable when the cashflow could no longer cover interest payments and the costs of running the business at the end of the summer holiday period when TC should have been making money hand over fist. Why is anyone surprised? Blaming BREXIT for this is a joke. A very bad joke. Three things caused this; debt, debt and debt. Period. |
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