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Given that his employer et al were throwing him under the bus can you blame him ? |
Originally Posted by Nil further
(Post 10580360)
Given that his employer et al were throwing him under the bus can you blame him ? |
Two quick points: the prior flight's go around "The commander took control during the flare and executed a go-around."
That has to have had some impact on his own confidence. Secondly, anxiety attacks can and do produce physiological symptoms, e.g. increased heart, respiratory rates, nausea etc. It is the body's response to situations or triggers. |
Originally Posted by LEM
(Post 10579785)
License directly to the garbage bin. |
Originally Posted by sonicbum
(Post 10569096)
While wishing our colleague a quick recovery and a bright career, I have to disagree with the above, as all those sensations should have been experienced during initial pilot training.
It is ok to put 250 hours guys on the RHS of an airliner IF there is enough "squeezing" during flight training to minimise any kind of unwanted outcome with paying customers onboard. Anyway, our colleague might be reading us and here nobody is perfect, so again hope he will make it to retirement as a pilot but there are issues that need to be addressed -IMHO- with "modern" flight training. |
Originally Posted by 4runner
(Post 10581958)
“squeezing”? Hardly. They’re pampered. Euro pilots also don’t do full stalls. Unless they’re doing it by accident. That’s none of my business though. Keep up the written tests.... Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls. |
Originally Posted by 4runner
(Post 10581958)
. Euro pilots also don’t do full stalls.
|
Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.[/QUOTE] unless you don’t know what to do, from initial flight training primacy. Then get an aircraft you’ve been taught is impossible to stall. Then stall said aircraft and keep it stalled until you hit the water. EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training. |
They taught me to be an instructor and I didn't know...
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Originally Posted by 4runner
(Post 10582028)
EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training.
I think stall training was like in lesson number 5 of my PPL... |
Originally Posted by bulldog89
(Post 10582045)
Stop writing false information. Maybe some glamorous school doesn't do full stalls, but that's not "EASA pilots". I think stall training was like in lesson number 5 of my PPL... |
Originally Posted by hans brinker
(Post 10582003)
...............Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.
In a fully developed stall or spin, the first time you ever do it, there is no way you want to push forward on the stick - the instinct is to pull up, but you must push forward to unstall the wing in order to recover. A bit like skiing - you gain control when you lean forwards, but when you are learning to ski, the last thing you want to do when out of control whizzing down a slope is to lean forwards ! Without actually entering and recovering from such manoeuvres, there is no guarantee that you will overcome your natural, (and incorrect) instinct. The correct recovery needs to be practised and become a reflex - there is not time to think, “ah, OK, a stall, now what did my instructor say I had to do to recover?” I wonder if F/O Bonin on AF447 had ever practiced full stalls? I suspect not. |
What’s this got to do Anxiety Attacks ? |
Originally Posted by Nil further
(Post 10582113)
What’s this got to do Anxiety Attacks ? At the company I flew, manual flight is a big part of training (I'm retired now after 20k+ hrs on the 737) Anxiety is a state of mind that can happen to everybody, but hands-on training will make the chance for anxiety smaller. (apology if my English is a bit shaky!) Henri |
I think the idea is that better manual handling will give more confidence , and therefore people will be less anxious about handling. Our current Boeing sim includes steep turns and stalling . Good fun and good to get the scan going again. |
Originally Posted by 4runner
(Post 10582028)
Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls. unless you don’t know what to do, from initial flight training primacy. Then get an aircraft you’ve been taught is impossible to stall. Then stall said aircraft and keep it stalled until you hit the water. EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training. No Airbus pilot is taught an Airbus is impossible to stall, all receive training while in alternate law with the stall warning. The pilot that held the stick back on AF447 did a horrible job, but let’s not pretend that means no EASA pilot knows how to fly. |
Originally Posted by Uplinker
(Post 10582101)
I am not sure that is true. Obviously modern passenger jet flying should never get anywhere near a stall or a spin. But, If a pilot has never experienced a full stall or a spin, then they haven’t practiced overcoming the natural (incorrect) reaction, nor can they develop full confidence in their ability to recover. This robs them of vital knowledge about their ability to control an aircraft in challenging conditions. In a fully developed stall or spin, the first time you ever do it, there is no way you want to push forward on the stick - the instinct is to pull up, but you must push forward to unstall the wing in order to recover. A bit like skiing - you gain control when you lean forwards, but when you are learning to ski, the last thing you want to do when out of control whizzing down a slope is to lean forwards ! Without actually entering and recovering from such manoeuvres, there is no guarantee that you will overcome your natural, (and incorrect) instinct. The correct recovery needs to be practised and become a reflex - there is not time to think, “ah, OK, a stall, now what did my instructor say I had to do to recover?” I wonder if F/O Bonin on AF447 had ever practiced full stalls? I suspect not. Not getting in trouble beats getting out of trouble. |
Hi Hans, I think we agree with each other. Obviously prevention is better than a cure, but when the subject of this thread feels they cannot remain in the cockpit for a challenging landing - which is the very essence of being a pilot - I ask myself why. What was missing from their training such that a challenging approach and landing caused so much anxiety that they left the cockpit? Or, possibly, we are all barking up the wrong tree? |
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