|
Smartwings B738 over Aegean Sea on Aug 22nd 2019
|
Unless everywhere enroute was either under a TS or SNOCLO, this is definitely not a command decision I would make. |
An In Flight Shut Down (IFSD) event is defined (by EASA and the FAA) as follows.
When an engine ceases to function in flight and is shutdown, whether self-induced, crew initiated or caused by some other external influence (i.e. In Flight Shutdown / IFSD for all causes; for example: due to flameout, internal failure, crew-initiated shutoff, foreign object ingestion, icing, inability to obtain and / or control desired thrust). In the event of an IFSD the Boeing QRH instruction is 'Plan to land at the nearest suitable airport'. It would seem, in this instance, that they were stretching the definition of the words 'nearest' & 'suitable' just a tadge too far?! |
They could have landed in Athens around 30 min after the IFSD.
Also looks like the AC wasn't ETOPS certified at all. - So max. diversion time 60min. |
There is some suggestion on AV that the PIC was the Director of Flight Operations..either way these clowns are on my No Fly list
|
Originally Posted by EDML
(Post 10552635)
They could have landed in Athens around 30 min after the IFSD.
Also looks like the AC wasn't ETOPS certified at all. - So max. diversion time 60min. If the nearest suitable is more than 60 minutes of flying away while non-ETOPS you should fly there. Other way around, even if you are flying ETOPS but the nearest suitable airport is only 30 minuts away, you should fly there. Anyhow, very odd decision-making at first glance. |
Originally Posted by EDML
(Post 10552635)
They could have landed in Athens around 30 min after the IFSD.
Also looks like the AC wasn't ETOPS certified at all. - So max. diversion time 60min. |
Originally Posted by ReturningVector
(Post 10552658)
ETOPS doesn't really matter outside of the planning phase.
ETOPS or not, does it matter to land ASAP? |
"Head of Flight Operations of Smartwings. (CPT)"
I hope it was a joke.... |
It won’t be an ETOPs flight will it, so they’ll be within 60 mins of a suitable airfield at one engine cruise ? So no excuse for 2h20 |
Gross negligence and irresponsible of the crew. Their licences should be revoked. |
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 10552757)
"Head of Flight Operations of Smartwings. (CPT)"
I hope it was a joke.... Not a joke and read the comments on avherald from an ATC, they even didn’t notify the ATC untill they were in Czech airspace. Just ridiculous and this company was making headlines to often during last years... |
Originally Posted by bumpy737
(Post 10552950)
Not a joke
|
Avherald doesn't offer any evidence for that assertion. Do you have some? |
I wonder which bit of "land at nearest suitable airport" they didn't understand?
I also read they tried 2 relight attempts, one X-bleed and one windmill:ugh: |
Johnny ; The discussion has been done to death but there is similar stuff on the Med East forum, "QR 920 11th Aug" thread. Funny how many love to dig deep into what is "nearest" and what is "suitable" until they justify pure lack of airmanship.
|
I think nobody would disagree that Athens, 100NM away would have been not only suitable but nearly perfect (descent profile). Also good weather on the 22nd at LGAV all day. |
Originally Posted by EDML
(Post 10553086)
I think nobody would disagree that Athens, 100NM away would have been not only suitable but nearly perfect (descent profile). Also good weather on the 22nd at LGAV all day. |
The 2 clowns who operated this flight need to be prosecuted for gross criminal negligence....... Unbelievable !! |
Printing error on the QRH. "LAND LKPR" apparently.
|
Originally Posted by 763 jock
(Post 10553144)
Printing error on the QRH. "LAND LKPR" apparently.
Seriously, it would be very interesting to know what that captain was thinking. |
|
Originally Posted by OldnGrounded
(Post 10553152)
Seriously, it would be very interesting to know what that captain was thinking. |
Fuel burn 737-800, LRC
Compared to 2 Engine LRC at Optimum Altitude how much more is it with one eng? Thx |
Originally Posted by lomapaseo
(Post 10553176)
That doesn't make it wrong. We put the decision making in the hands of the captain and after it's made we second guess him/her not against a hard rule but only against our own faded view from our computer screens.
They’ve continued on to scheduled destination passing numerous “suitable airports”, not to mention crossing numerous sovereign state boundaries in an emergency condition. Absolutely shocking ! Surely EASA will be investigating this incident ? I know that if I was a passenger on this flight, I’d be on to a lawyer and suing their asses ! |
Originally Posted by Bam Thwok
(Post 10553192)
I know that if I was a passenger on this flight, I’d be on to a lawyer and suing their asses ! |
Originally Posted by lomapaseo
(Post 10553176)
That doesn't make it wrong. We put the decision making in the hands of the captain and after it's made we second guess him/her not against a hard rule but only against our own faded view from our computer screens.
|
Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10553204)
What harm would you sue for?
Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of acts that create a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions. |
Post 1
The 2 clowns who operated this flight need to be prosecuted for gross criminal negligence....... Unbelievable !! ...(if proved factual).... I sure hope I will never have to have anything to do with you in real life. |
“It was safe to operate,” the airline told Czech newspapersThe airline confirmed the incident to Czech newspaper iROZHLAS, stating that it was perfectly safe to operate the aircraft on one engine all the way to Prague.SmartWings spokesperson Vlaďka Dufková denies that the company violated safety regulations and explains to newspaper Zdopravy.cz: “The crew proceeded in accordance with the safety and operational procedures for these cases and the aircraft landed safely. The commander of the aircraft is one of the most experienced in the company, the crew had the situation under control and certainly would not underestimate anything.“ Zdopravy.cz asked the Czech Civil Aviation Authority for comments, and are still waiting for an answer. https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/s...aining-engine/ |
Originally Posted by Bam Thwok
(Post 10553128)
The 2 clowns who operated this flight need to be prosecuted for gross criminal negligence....... Unbelievable !! The legal eagles will most assuredly get rich before you do, if you ever do so! Be lucky David |
Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10553204)
What harm would you sue for?
Be lucky David |
"safe to operate" - can this (statement) be true? If yes ... IMO this is not a flight crew problem, it is a problem that the airline is allowed to operate.
|
SafetyFlying is a matter of trust and safety is a parameter to which the Smartwings Group gives the greatest possible attention. Smartwings is certified as an air carrier for the scheduled and chartered commercial transportation of passengers and cargo according to European Union rules. The company has also met the demanding requirements of the FAA - the Federal Aviation Administration for flying in the US - and it is authorized for commercial flights to and from the US. Smartwings has repeatedly and successfully passed the rigorous safety audit of the international airline organization IATA (International Air Transport Association). The IOSA audit program (IATA Operational Safety Audit) checks the safety and quality of operation, and the airlines involved in the program must demonstrate their compliance with the strictest international standards.Maybe the FAA will have a closer look after this incident..... |
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 10553184)
Fuel burn 737-800, LRC
Compared to 2 Engine LRC at Optimum Altitude how much more is it with one eng? Thx |
Originally Posted by misd-agin
(Post 10553249)
Boxed data so it's not exactly the same - but it shows a weight of 130,000 lbs to be able to cruise at FL250. Specific range is 79 nm/1000 lbs. At FL370 at 130,000 lbs the specific range is 111 nm/1000 lbs.
|
Originally Posted by gearlever
(Post 10553184)
Fuel burn 737-800, LRC
Compared to 2 Engine LRC at Optimum Altitude how much more is it with one eng? Thx DD provides best L over D in the descent but once established at the new FMC CRZ altitude, 300 knots or LRC can be set/selected. QRH (engine failure etc) then directs the crew to land at nearest suitable. If fuel contamination was/could be part of the original problem, then the extended time in flight wasn't a good idea. |
Originally Posted by Bam Thwok
(Post 10553214)
How about Reckless Endangerment for a start ? Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of acts that create a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions. |
Originally Posted by Squawk7777
(Post 10553414)
Reminds me of the Hapag Lloyd flight that continued the flight with one main down. I believe the skipper lost his licence over this right before his retirement.
Court says A310 captain "endangered lives" by ignoring low-fuel warnings three years ago The captain of a Hapag-Lloyd Airbus A310-300 that ran out of fuel just short of the runway at Vienna airport three years ago, has been given a six-month suspended prison sentence by a Hanover, Germany court for "endangering others' lives".Capt Wolfgang Arminger had voluntarily left his job at the German charter airline around six months after the accident. The court said he had ignored low-fuel warnings that began while he was over the Balkans when he was operating a flight on 12 July 2000 from Chania, Crete, to Hanover. The A310's landing gear would not retract after take-off from Chania, but the captain elected to continue to the destination, and the court criticised him for failing to take the option of diverting to a nearer airport such as Zagreb. More |
Originally Posted by Squawk7777
(Post 10553414)
Reminds me of the Hapag Lloyd flight that continued the flight with one main down. I believe the skipper lost his licence over this right before his retirement.
Originally Posted by OldnGrounded
(Post 10553420)
He was actually convicted of a crime:
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 18:56. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.